V12...
That twin turbo 1UZ is sexy as hell. That leads me to ask, how the hell are people with completely different cars doing more to these motors than the SC400 guys that have these already in their car?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 845
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From: Lake Ray Hubbard
What I don't understand is why noone has done an M70 or M74 swap yet? The M70(late 80's, early 90's 5L bmw v12 - M74 is the 5.4L v12 that replaced it) despite the crappy flowing heads had been twin and big single turbo'd quite thorougly by people running separate ecu's as bmw designed and a single standalone. The motor runs less than 1K in average condition, half that or less in poor condition. You can get a 6 speed from an 850 for about $2500 or there are guys that have built fully built autos with adapters in the 3500 range using the stock 850/750 driveshaft - which should also fit out vehicle considering the wheelbase is identical. The wiring issue could be resolved by just getting the entire engine and body harnesses(easiest if you buy a donor 750il - of which there are quite a few under 3k since the owners tend to destroy the tranny, then put them up for sale - so you arguably get the engine & harnesses for free once you part out the rest of the car). Since there are guys running well over 800 rwhp & 900lb ft tq on a mild tune, it seems that the fabrication of the engine and tranny mounts seems to be the biggest obstacle. I don't buy the "lots of young guys in the sc world" argument - what do you think the honda, dsm & vw worlds are loaded with - and those guys will swap anything into anything given enough time. it seems that there is a much much more conservative stance towards doing anything outside of the box on this platform. Hell, the LSX swap guys were getting major flack when they started introducing those swaps, and arguably they are now as accepted as your standard 1jz2/2jzgte swaps. Honestly if you could find a fabricator that wouldn't rape you for creating the engine & tranny mounts, you could buy the manifolds from one of the other guys that has already turbo'd their v12 and like our common swaps just follow their route to power. Other than engine management costs - which will depend upon whether you go single or dual ecus & finding a local bimmer tuner that is familiar with your choice of management, I don't see why this venture should cost more than a built 2jz-gte 6sp manual swap of comparable power.
yea ur probably right , but i just have a thing for v12's, they are super classy and the epidemy of luxury, i like to think they would last forever also considering each cylinder has less work to do.
ok so to clear some things up as far as power, by the time you get the engine in the bay your going to have to most likely: build custom headers, change to cable tb's, and thus custom upper intake (while your at it why not make a custom twin low-mount cold-air intake?) then since you've got custom tb's why not get a custom ems set-up. once all of this is said and done you should have 400hp, this is a reasonable number (iirc the factory ecxhaust had something like 6-8 mufflers). so 400 hp is more along the lines of what you'll have.
ok so to clear some things up as far as power, by the time you get the engine in the bay your going to have to most likely: build custom headers, change to cable tb's, and thus custom upper intake (while your at it why not make a custom twin low-mount cold-air intake?) then since you've got custom tb's why not get a custom ems set-up. once all of this is said and done you should have 400hp, this is a reasonable number (iirc the factory ecxhaust had something like 6-8 mufflers). so 400 hp is more along the lines of what you'll have.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: Lake Ray Hubbard
The M70 made 300hp & 330lb ft of tq, which late 80's/early 90's was pimp, although that is anemic now. The major issue with the m70 was the lack of flow in the head, which is addressed by the machine work that would be necessary when you turbocharge it. The block is stout enough to hold the the horsepower. The M74 was 322hp and slightly more torque. These engines were not problematic so much as the owners. In their heyday these were very expensive engines to maintain, so most of the owners just knowing they had a status symbol vehicle failed to address issues that quickly snowballed into major engine-wrecking problems. Cooling, and thus overheating were an issue, yet owners wouldn't stop driving, so the simple overheating turned into a blown HG or worse a warped head. BMW also used a separate ECU for each bank of cylinders & these tended to fail, which lead to other issues when the owners didn't replace them. These issues are easily solved by the aftermarket - hell even BMW solved them with their S70 engines that made upwards of 500hp. McLaren used a modified bmw v12 for the McLaren F1. Given the choice of V12's - the Mercedes is by far the best overall, but comes with a best overall price, the Jag v12 is beautiful when running, however if you want to discuss problematic that engine takes the cake(although most of the issues were exacerbated by the owners as well). If you want to talk bang for you buck, "easily" resolved issues, power to weight, and decently supported - then the bmw v12 is the way to go. Why else have so many people used this as the go-to v12? It's not quite the bang for the buck the LS(x) is, but sexiness for the buck with the power to back it, you can't beat it.
(edit) heres a link that explains it , scroll down to 'problem areas'
http://www.carthrottle.com/used-car-...-e31-8-series/
on a side note they are a super cool car
Last edited by 1WILLY1; Sep 13, 2012 at 05:39 AM.