Does anyone have this on their car? It's for '93-'98 Supra part number 30-1583sport (front) and 30-1584sport (rear) cost about $160 each. Three way adjustable and height adjustable. Sounds pretty cool. I am thinking either Bilstein or Koni Sports shocks for the next upgrade item on my list. It will be nice if someone give me some feedbacks on these shocks.

Thanks,

Peter~

Pete:
Have you checked with Koni or Bilstein's tech support to find out IF the shocks will fit on the SC400? The tech support guys are very helpfull and can give you valuable information. For instance, TIEN tech support got back to me in one day regarding their coil-over fitment on the SC400. Let us know what you find out.

Gordon at Koni North America replied the following message.

I don't know about it, should I give it a try or stay with Tokico/AGX/Bilstein option? If all these options made for Supra will fit on SC400, I don't see why Koni will have problem on SC400. Also, how much heavier is SC400 compare to Supra? Isn't Supra about 3200LBS? vs 3500LBS for SC400.

Peter~

I thought the weight difference was only 100lbs.,but I could be wrong.
The unsprung weight is the same(or very close),and this helps also in the refinement department.
The shocks are also supposed to be matched to the spring frequency anyways,not just vehicle weight,and the aftermarket springs for a Supra are going to be different from the stock Supra,so what the heck are they talking about?
I've put Bilsteins from totally different cars on other cars of similar weight/design,and never had a problem,since their digressive valving is so well done.
The Koni's,if adjustable,should be adaptable to your tastes if needed.Some of Koni's applications are just swapped over from one car to another,and are not engineered for the secondary application(need to be maxed out on adjustment),something they don't tell you,but can decifer from part #s.
The spring seats on the rear shocks are unique to the Supra,and are smaller,so a seating ring made from some steel plate should allow you to use an SC spring.The height location is the same for both cars,or else just use Supra springs.
Until I got the stock TT springs/shocks/bar,I was going to consider Bilsteins/Eibachs,and some spacers to raise the car up just a little from that height.

That's what I thought too, I guess people at Koni don't know what they are selling...

Peter

I wouldn't say that, Koni makes a good product and they obviously have some decent engineers to design it. I'd say our boy Gordon on the help desk isn't the sharpest tool in the shed though.

Rob_O

Hey, man, don't flame someone you don't know. I bet there is a lot of unknowns at play here. No offence, but ignorance is Bliss. Your boy Gordon has probably made the best statement yet. In suspension upgrades, balancing all the components is key. Spring rates/dampening rates (both directions)/ vehicle weight and height play EXTREEMLY important roles in suspension. Just because you drop in stiff springs and struts, and the car seems to feel like it handles better, doesn't mean it actually does. More often than not, mis matching components usually worsens the performance of your suspension. Butt dyno results mean nothing in the racing world.

Glad to see someone was able to use parts for a different application, thats nice, but whoop dee doo, you probably just F' up the performance of you car in some aspect or another. More often than not, a Ricer will drop big $$ into droping their car. Yes if feels better, but run it on a slolom course. Lets see how well the car REALLY performs.

Remember these manufacturers are TRYING to sell parts. Them turning you down should be a huge red flag that something isn't right. Yes, that strut just might fit your car, but if it won't function correctly with the SC's spring rates, Gordon is right - don't buy it. The SC and Supra have different rates(no brainer) and the strut must be matched to the spring rate amung other things. So it makes more sence that the strut will not function propperly. It's nice that it might fit, but who really cares!!!! I'm not going to flame any one, but I'd trust a Koni Tech who has years of experience in the performance world over a white collar Lexus owner on a public internet forum. I, too often than not, see the wrong suspension setup all the time at amature events. I always recommend people understand how something works before you upgrade to something new. Just because it looks cool, or has a well known brand name on, or everyone else has it , doesn't necessarily mean its best for you. Figure out your needs first, then go shopping.

Also, FYI the adjustable Koni's are not meant to be "adjustable" in the normal sence of the term. They are used to recover the lost stiffness as the struts age, thus you will always use the softest setting, then increase it as the strut looses its original stiffness.

Any way, didn't mean to **** anyone off, but unless you have years of experience on the track, please be careful of what you say about others. Some times it just makes you look bad.

Keith

How about Eibach springs and Koni adjustable shocks for Supra on SC400?

Since I couldn't buy the Tein HA coilover for Supra, I've purchased a set of Eibach springs for Supra. I am planning to install this along with either KYB/Bilstein/Koni struts. I am pretty sure the tech at Koni knows about the product but what I don't understand is that we have people here using Tein HA, KYB AGX, BILSTEIN made for Supra without any problem and they post about the improvements, then why not KONI? Koni struts interested me due to the adjustable nature but I guess if KONI tech does not recommend installing these on SC400, I guess my choices are down to either KYB AGX or BILSTEIN. However, someone with suspension knowledge recommended me to go with BILSTEIN over AGX and TOKICO over BILSTEIN. So, am I down to TOKICO/EIBACH combo for Supra on my SC400? Damn, I was trying to avoid this combo due to my unhappy experience with the current set I have on my SC400 which is TOKICO/EIBACH for SC400.

Peter~

A company that makes parts that if/when they fail,could endanger your life is in no way going to suggest using their parts other than intended,usually the warranty explains that up front.
Over 1.0 g in a daily,street driven car,with more travel than the stock car ever had,whoop de do!
I agree about most aftermarket suspension parts,and flaming people that you don't know.

Ok Keith, explain this one to me...

1999 Integra GSR 4 door - 2764 Lbs
1992 Civic VX Hatch - 2178 Lbs

Think they use the same springs? I bet not... but Koni lists the same struts for both of those cars.

How about Koni PN 8040-1087. Fits the front suspension of the Chevy Caprice/Impala from 1965 to 1996... all models. Also fits the Nova, Chevelle, Deville, and a bunch of others. I believe there's more cars listed that it fits than cars it doesn't fit. Want to explain to Koni that a 68 Nova with a 6 banger and a 3 speed is going to have vaaaaaaastly different damping requirements than a fully loaded 76 Deville with a 472 Cubic inch engine and a Turbo 400. I'm sure they'll drop everything and get to work making a shock for each possible combination

I'm not going to argue with you about the fact that the combination of suspension parts must be carefully matched for optimum performance. That's why we have companies like Penske that can build $2000 a piece shocks that have more adjustments than 50% of the people in the pits at a SCCA national race would know what to do with and sell them all day long. But don't try to tell me that shocks designed for a 3445 LB Supra TT are going to have tremendously different damping charachteristics than the shocks for a 3538 LB SC300

Perhaps I was wrong to insinuate that Gordon doesn't know anything more than the catalog in front of him can tell him. But just because he's "Never heard of that crossover" doesn't mean it won't work

And BTW, I've been a white collar worker for 3 years now. I turned wrenches for a living for the 14 years prior to that (and still do some side work)

</rant>

Rob_O

Rob

The milti-application struts you speak of are easy to explain. The sturt was designed to to handle a wide range of dapmening rates. This in mind, shows that the strut is not necessarily a performance strut, but an all-purpose factory replacement strut. There are many like them on the market. I'm not disputing that. Just about all manufactures make cross refrenced struts....but a performance strut in the true'st sence of the term is dampeing specific. My RX has coilovers that are designed for a very specific spring rate, and are not even listed for a specific application. They are only listed as a rate and an eyelit diameter. Its up to the tuner to mix and match parts that will correctly fit the necessary application.

I have had a close experience w/ spring rates on the track. It about cost me my life. I increased my spring rate 110 lbs in the front for the different track conditions. But failed to cross refrence the struts specs to see if it could handle it. I added the correct increase to the swaybars to compensate as well. All was fine and dandy and the car drove stable. About 3 laps later, the spring tore the strut to pieces. My right front suspension collapsed, the car was now unbalanced and the next time I hit the brakes, it plowed to the right. I spun out of control at over 90 mph. I ended up hiting a low rail. The entire rear of the was damaged - axles and pumpkin were destroyed. I was rushed to the emergency room. All because of 110 lbs of a different spring rate. The strut was rated to within 20 lbs of where I had it, so I couldn't sue the manufacturer - I went over by 20 lbs. 20 friggin lbs gave me 6 weeks of physical rehab and over $12,000 in damage. Needless to say, I'm ever so careful when doing my math at the track. I take nothing for granted, and NEVER assume!!!!!!

If Gordon had said let me take your money and here is your strut. And If you were to get in an accident, and the strut failed, he, as well as Koni would be liable. Be glad they are smart and are looking out for us. There are many shady companies out there selling ricer products that haven't felt the sting of a lawsuit yet. Performance parts are safe when istalled correctly. Improper parts or poor installation techniques lead to nothin but disaster.

Sure, if someone just wants to say they have a name brand strut and they only drive on the street and have never taken a driving class in their life, then they would have no idea on how to push a car to the edge of its envelope and most likely would loose traction before they stress the suspension. They will end up killing themselves before the struts will fail anyway. But for those that know what they are doing, and have expensive cars and their health on the line, it would be stupid for ANYONE to install a part that was not designed for that application. Hell, if not for warrenty reasons alone. I replace my struts almost yearly, and they are 90% of the time covered under warrenty. That would be a costly maintenance schedule if I had to pay for new struts every year. Thank God for warrenty's.

Anyway, we all make our own decisions. Some good, some bad. We live with our mistakes and learn lessons with experience. Good luck to everyone on their endeavour for performance. And always remember to be safe.


Keith

p.s. Theoretically I'm a white coller worker too, but I still always have grease in the pores of my fingers. For some reason, no one makes a good hand cleaner/degreaser. I use fast orange, but if anyone has a better cleaner; let me know.

Koni's are real good shocks.. It's a little bumpy on the sc400, but it's a smooth bumpy ride if you know what I mean. I now have Bilstein's instead because some guy sold me 4 bilstein's with 4 Eibach Prokit from the Supra TT. The Bilstein's are just as good, self adjustibility based on road conditions, ride's a lot smoother, but hard on pot holes. I sold the Koni's on Ebay, and if I had the chance to, I'd buy them back. Although it's quite a bumpy ride, it does not sound harsh on the suspension. The Bilstein's smooth, but when the road conditions are bad, it's kind of loud. You can really hear your control arms. The Koni's are quiet though.. I think it's because the bushing's on the struts are not as stiff compared to the Bilstein's. Also, I'm having a lot of problems with my 19" 3 piece rims. They keep bending at the inner rim. I'm now suspecting that it's because of the shocks. It's becomming very expensive to maintain my rims. I didn't have the 19's with the Koni's, so I'm not sure whether it's because of the Bilstein shocks.. Anyhow, good luck to you though.

jj

Zep hand cleaner