Originally Posted by Weapon F

Where to begin I think senior management at Lexus truly doesn't get the enthusiast, the folks they're trying to sell these cars too. They just don't know how to cater to this market and it shows with their choices when it comes to performance. When you put the same exact motor with the same exact power and torque in three separate totally different vehicles that compete in 3 totally different classes one being sport coupe another being a big four door sedan and latest being there high tech high-end uber coupe says a lot. Either this was done for a cost saving measure or even worse they just don't get it.

And I think it's the latter they just don't get it. Let's face it the RCF, GSF,LC 500 even the ISF these cars are geared towards the American market and there trying to make inroads into the European market. If you look at ISF sales numbers, of 11000 made in roughly 7 years almost half were sold in the US alone. As manufacturer that should tell you where your biggest market is. And if your trying to break into the highly competitive European market you should know what your client value the most and in this segment it's PERFORMANCE FIRST.

Look how else can you explain the fact that in this segment of cars owners of BMWs Mercedes and Audis put up with quality issues related to there cars why because the performance aspects of these vehicles. They are willing to sacrifice reliability just to get the performance of these cars. We all know Lexus has reliability aspect down packed that's one of the main reason why we purchased Lexus in the first place. But when it comes to performance they just can't seem to get it right. When you can take an 8 year old ISF install few bolt on parts I/H/E, RR racing LCA bushings, FIGS mega Control arms and set of skikky sway bars with some sticky tires you be able to not only compete with but possibly beat that $100.000 plus brand new 2017 LC 500 why simple power, torque possibly suspension. If you you look at trend regarding how Lexus has been set up RCF and GSF suspension wise I don't see them doing anything radical in that area such as a fully adjustable magnetic ride suspension which should have been offered on the RCF and GSF is well.

Now yes you get new tech, it's nicer looking car, with beautiful exterior and interior fantastic fit and finish to bar none but if you can't beat an 8 year old four door sedan with just a few bolt ons parts or stock RCF or like ISF with just few bolt on parts then why bother building it. Just look at BMW m3/4, m5, m6 all with different motors with specific power and performance level's catering to the needs of each particular vehicle. Just imagine m3/4, m5, and m6 all using m3/4 motor what fail that would have been. Will have to wait and see with LC 500 but at this point I'm not holding my breath.

Originally Posted by Weapon F

Where to begin I think senior management at Lexus truly doesn't get the enthusiast, the folks they're trying to sell these cars too. They just don't know how to cater to this market and it shows with their choices when it comes to performance. When you put the same exact motor with the same exact power and torque in three separate totally different vehicles that compete in 3 totally different classes one being sport coupe another being a big four door sedan and latest being there high tech high-end uber coupe says a lot. Either this was done for a cost saving measure or even worse they just don't get it.

And I think it's the latter they just don't get it. Let's face it the RCF, GSF,LC 500 even the ISF these cars are geared towards the American market and there trying to make inroads into the European market. If you look at ISF sales numbers, of 11000 made in roughly 7 years almost half were sold in the US alone. As manufacturer that should tell you where your biggest market is. And if your trying to break into the highly competitive European market you should know what your client value the most and in this segment it's PERFORMANCE FIRST.

Look how else can you explain the fact that in this segment of cars owners of BMWs Mercedes and Audis put up with quality issues related to there cars why because the performance aspects of these vehicles. They are willing to sacrifice reliability just to get the performance of these cars. We all know Lexus has reliability aspect down packed that's one of the main reason why we purchased Lexus in the first place. But when it comes to performance they just can't seem to get it right. When you can take an 8 year old ISF install few bolt on parts I/H/E, RR racing LCA bushings, FIGS mega Control arms and set of skikky sway bars with some sticky tires you be able to not only compete with but possibly beat that $100.000 plus brand new 2017 LC 500 why simple power, torque possibly suspension. If you you look at trend regarding how Lexus has been set up RCF and GSF suspension wise I don't see them doing anything radical in that area such as a fully adjustable magnetic ride suspension which should have been offered on the RCF and GSF is well.

Now yes you get new tech, it's nicer looking car, with beautiful exterior and interior fantastic fit and finish to bar none but if you can't beat an 8 year old four door sedan with just a few bolt ons parts or stock RCF or like ISF with just few bolt on parts then why bother building it. Just look at BMW m3/4, m5, m6 all with different motors with specific power and performance level's catering to the needs of each particular vehicle. Just imagine m3/4, m5, and m6 all using m3/4 motor what fail that would have been. Will have to wait and see with LC 500 but at this point I'm not holding my breath.

Originally Posted by wordsworth

You pretty much answered your own question. You don't get reliability by splitting up your engineering budget into producing 5 different performance engines.

Originally Posted by Ice350

My initial reaction to the news about it being the same motor was similar to yours. But after thinking about it a few days I remembered what Lexus is about. Reliability is always first. The enthusiast in me wishes there were different engines or at least 3 different tuning levels. I believe this engine capable....easily capable of 500hp. Tune the thing for 500 in the halo car just to do it. But Lexus does what Lexus does. We should all be familiar with that by now.

Originally Posted by wordsworth

You pretty much answered your own question. You don't get reliability by splitting up your engineering budget into producing 5 different performance engines.

Originally Posted by Ice350

My initial reaction to the news about it being the same motor was similar to yours. But after thinking about it a few days I remembered what Lexus is about. Reliability is always first. The enthusiast in me wishes there were different engines or at least 3 different tuning levels. I believe this engine capable....easily capable of 500hp. Tune the thing for 500 in the halo car just to do it. But Lexus does what Lexus does. We should all be familiar with that by now.

Originally Posted by Weapon F

I here you on reliability issue that's why I choose ISF over M3, but why can't they offer more than one motor. Lexus could do it with two motor like so many other auto companies do over even do with one motor with lower hp number's and same motor with higher hp number. Look at BMW 550i 445hp same motor in M5 560 and with competition package that goes up to 575hp, then you have 520 184hp, 525 204hp and 530 245hp all using same motor. There several other car company's that do same thing. And before anyone talks about reliability of bmw motors they tend to be decent it's everything else that sucks horrible electronic issues, fuel pump issue, transmission issue etc but motor are typically pretty sound.

Now why can't Lexus do the sames, such as GSF gets 467hp, motor , RCF gets 500hp motor and LC 500 gets big nasty twin turbo 550 to 600hp beast all based off same platform. You control your cost and reliability, or you build two motor's one lower output the other higher output motor. If Ford can offer flat crank motor that rev's to 8200rpm, with magnetic ride suspension, brembo brakes Recaro seats in GT350 for same price of fully optioned out IS350, I think Lexus could have offered three different power levels for these three different cars instead of taking easy way out and offer same motor in three different HIGH end sports cars. Remember were not talking about IS F-Sport OR GS-F Sport, these cars are supposed to represent the top of the line sport vehicles for Lexus

Originally Posted by LRCSALES

these are all solid points. All we can hope is that the LCF has twin turbos and delivers what we are looking for. But im with you i totally wished the GSF had atleast 50 more hp. but with similar weight as the RCF they didnt have to, in getting a like 0-60 time. Heck i wish the the RCF had a true 500hp and a little over 400 torque. the reality is Lexus is just getting started In the performance, and enthusiast market. I think we all forget the company started 27 years ago. Half or even less than half as other brands. EX 1932 Ford coupe v8 (which arguably stated NASCAR)
BMW had a BMW 507 coupe and roadster in the Late 50s, to compete with Mercedes's 300SL. And with LEXUS's first stab at a performance car the ISF in 2007 as im sure you already know. I totally agree with you. I WISH on the highest star that the RCF ISF and GSF were even more tune friendly and or had more power. They just need time.