Possible source for Superchargers.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Originally posted by redgs4
I'd pay $3-4K for a CARB certified kit.
I'd pay $3-4K for a CARB certified kit.
Originally posted by redgs4
I'm looking for a CARB certified kit that will be installed, tuned and supported long term by a local NorCal shop. Too much to ask?
I'm looking for a CARB certified kit that will be installed, tuned and supported long term by a local NorCal shop. Too much to ask?
Honestly folks you are asking for this to cost less than a good set of rims and tires. Do you really think a well designed low-volume FI system should cost 3K?
If you were doing the work to design and implement the system how much would you expect your time to be worth? $50/hr? Let's have a bit of fun. Say it takes 3 solid months of R&D to design a kit. 480 hrs @ 50/hr = $240K. BTW Thats a time cost only with no $$$ for any actual materials needed/used. Say your parts cost is $1500 and you sell it for 3K. So you make 1500 for each system. You need to sell 160 systems to "break even". Figure into this that most shops charge $75-90/hr for mechanics time (rather than our 50) the "lost" revenue from doing R&D rather than real work. The fact that it probably would take >3 months to debug all the ECU work and that there aren't 160 of you out there (I know of, what... 3 SC cars and 3 TT cars) and you see why what you ask for isn't likely to happen.
Just venting...
Mr Johnson, I agree 110% with your comments on this.
This supports Mr J's theory in full, their cleaning out their warehouse due to the fact they cant move them. They cant move them because there just isnt enough people out there that will spend the $$$ that it takes to add FI to their GS. The $2000 drop in price probably lets them come close to breaking even on the whole project.
RMM put these kits together a few years back and now they are cleaning out the warehouse.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,970
Likes: 0
From: Kentucky
4500 bucks isn't much
thats not much at all. for a straight plug n play. sort of. my mustang, if i wanted a kit it would cost over that i think...just for the simple fact the stock parts could prob not handle the added power. 4500 bucks isn't much...as a matter of fact....i might need to make another purchase...
Driver
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
While I agree with Mr. Johnson--ie if you can get the kit now for $4,500 and they aren't sold out; what s the motivation to build new ones, I must help clarify the math a little.
480 R&D Hours @ $50/Hr = $24,000-----Not $240,000; so if you profit $1500 per kit only need to sell 16 kits to reach your break even. Theoretically, every kit from there on would be profitable.
480 R&D Hours @ $50/Hr = $24,000-----Not $240,000; so if you profit $1500 per kit only need to sell 16 kits to reach your break even. Theoretically, every kit from there on would be profitable.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
My bad
DOH!!!! 
98Nav400: Thanks for catching that! My bad. I think the argument still stands though. The other things still factor into it, the "lost" revenue, the fact that it would probably take > 3 man months to design the kit, real material costs, etc...
Should have checked the math.
98Nav400: Thanks for catching that! My bad. I think the argument still stands though. The other things still factor into it, the "lost" revenue, the fact that it would probably take > 3 man months to design the kit, real material costs, etc...
Should have checked the math.
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Pole Position
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Originally posted by JYOO
Even at 4500 I bet u theyre making a big profit.
Even at 4500 I bet u theyre making a big profit.
:shrug:
Believe what you like there's a reason that folks shell out the money. Is there another explanation for why many more people are actually spending the money to turbo their IS300s (starting in the 4K range but quite a number of 8-10K units out there) than are on here talking about if a kit were that cheap?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 1
From: California
I don't dispute the many points made by Mr Johnson and TTurbo Pimp, but for a straight vanilla low boost pre-tuned SC, $3-4K is not an outrageous request. [By pre-tuned I'm referring to a standard kit with all the basic parts selected to play well together.] The cost really comes with the customization and tuning that comes along with the quest for ever increasing horsepower. BTW, when I quoted my target price I was not including the cost of install and ongoing support.
As far as numbers goes, IMO the GS has many strikes against it. Compared to other cars, not many were sold and most Lexus [GS] owners are not the type that go out and modify their cars. Overall, it costs a lot just to get a GS and most folks don't want a sub-standard and poorly supported installation on a $50K car. The GS 400/430 are hard to modify and tune to high enough horsepower to justify the cost. And they weigh a ton, so the mediocre levels of horsepower gained [with some notable exceptions] don't provide a significant increase in performance.
Oh well, I can dream...
As for why there are more people adding FI to their IS's: different younger crowd that falls more in-line with the F&F types [no insult intended], lower entry cost and cheaper parts, lighter vehicle AND it comes with a manual tranny.
As far as numbers goes, IMO the GS has many strikes against it. Compared to other cars, not many were sold and most Lexus [GS] owners are not the type that go out and modify their cars. Overall, it costs a lot just to get a GS and most folks don't want a sub-standard and poorly supported installation on a $50K car. The GS 400/430 are hard to modify and tune to high enough horsepower to justify the cost. And they weigh a ton, so the mediocre levels of horsepower gained [with some notable exceptions] don't provide a significant increase in performance.
Oh well, I can dream...
As for why there are more people adding FI to their IS's: different younger crowd that falls more in-line with the F&F types [no insult intended], lower entry cost and cheaper parts, lighter vehicle AND it comes with a manual tranny.
Last edited by redgs4; Aug 11, 2003 at 03:12 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,466
Likes: 13
From: Cali
I have personally communicated (briefly) with Tony at Alpine Developments- from what I could gather, the GS kit wasn't really on the radar for them. They are certainly willing to entertain such a kit, but the demand would need to be attractive enough for them to take this seriously. He said they would investigate it.
One thing that wasn't mentioned- the cost of CARB certifying the kit. If I recall, this is about $5K.
In light of the fact that there is already an S/C kit available, and the GS is nearing the end of its' life span (for this platform), my gues is that there won't be too many tuners that are hot & bothered to take this on.
I'll keep in touch with Tony, let's see where this goes.
Regards,
Bob
One thing that wasn't mentioned- the cost of CARB certifying the kit. If I recall, this is about $5K.
In light of the fact that there is already an S/C kit available, and the GS is nearing the end of its' life span (for this platform), my gues is that there won't be too many tuners that are hot & bothered to take this on.
I'll keep in touch with Tony, let's see where this goes.
Regards,
Bob
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