Rear Turbo.
12-12-13, 08:24 PM
#61
I just left the exhaust shop that will be mandrel bending and welding all my pipes. He's ready to go as soon as I drop off all my parts. I picked up a 1 gallon water/meth tank so I can bolt that into my trunk. I'll be ordering the scavenge oil pump tomorrow so that it arrives by mid next week. I picked up a new intercooler as the other dual core is going to be way too big for the front bumper area of the car. I ended up going with a 28x8x2.5" intercooler. I also bought an external diesel fuel pump today that's rated at 35 psi. I was thinking that if I used a low enough viscosity oil like Mobil 0-20, I may be able to use this little diesel fuel pump without having to wait days for the actual oil pump to get here. Any thoughts on this?
12-13-13, 08:29 AM
#62
To clear some things up:
This is not meant to be combative... just food for thought.
In short, I couldn't disagree more with you for wanting to add a piggy of any kind to a forced induction system utilizing 7.5 psi and under on this platform. Additionally, water/meth is only to cool intake charge, its no bandaid of any kind for timing.....
You've been misinformed. Meth/Alky/Water injection does help cool the intake air charge but it's the octane and additional fueling that is the benefit. Higher octane = less change of knock/ detonation = bandaid or power adder depending on usage. Using the AEM Alky injection system on the last big motor/blower build I was apart of (in the video) fattened up the AFR's almost a full point and allowed me to pull fuel and get lower the IDC's.
Have you seen a Rotrex s/c spool on this car? Theres no boost build, its instant. I have vids. Turbo will be no different.
There is no "spool" on a centrifugal blower. It's boost is RPM dependent and far more consistent than a turbo who's output is dependent on load. You probably see ~3.5psi at 3k and ~8psi at 6.5k pretty consistently and those will be your highest pressures at those RPMs. With a turbo you may see 8psi at 2.5k RPMs and half throttle depending on load. That, my friend, can make a motor very unhappy if it can't adjust the way it needs to quickly.
You bring up some valid concerns but they are accounted for with the applications we are talking about here. While I dont want to stop anyone from doing something different its just not necessary with 7psi. By all means, you wanna slap a piggy on this have it but your results will be nill...I'd venture to guess you would have issues with "in town driving" trying to tune out normal driving conditions the stock ecu does wonderfully.
I fail to see how a piggy-back would cause "in town driving" issues if it's done properly and only used to help when in boost.
You've been misinformed. Meth/Alky/Water injection does help cool the intake air charge but it's the octane and additional fueling that is the benefit. Higher octane = less change of knock/ detonation = bandaid or power adder depending on usage. Using the AEM Alky injection system on the last big motor/blower build I was apart of (in the video) fattened up the AFR's almost a full point and allowed me to pull fuel and get lower the IDC's.
Have you seen a Rotrex s/c spool on this car? Theres no boost build, its instant. I have vids. Turbo will be no different.
There is no "spool" on a centrifugal blower. It's boost is RPM dependent and far more consistent than a turbo who's output is dependent on load. You probably see ~3.5psi at 3k and ~8psi at 6.5k pretty consistently and those will be your highest pressures at those RPMs. With a turbo you may see 8psi at 2.5k RPMs and half throttle depending on load. That, my friend, can make a motor very unhappy if it can't adjust the way it needs to quickly.
You bring up some valid concerns but they are accounted for with the applications we are talking about here. While I dont want to stop anyone from doing something different its just not necessary with 7psi. By all means, you wanna slap a piggy on this have it but your results will be nill...I'd venture to guess you would have issues with "in town driving" trying to tune out normal driving conditions the stock ecu does wonderfully.
I fail to see how a piggy-back would cause "in town driving" issues if it's done properly and only used to help when in boost.
12-13-13, 09:04 AM
#63
No, I was responding to your comment around water/meth as a timing bandaid for the car. I said you're wrong because we use it only for IAT cooling. The stock ecu does nothing with it just as it does nothing with higher octane fuel. Put race fuel in your car and report back.... It does nothing on the stock ecu
Ill RE to your PM but you are combative. I would really encourage you to search LMS Supercharger and Steve Larkin to learn the basics of the 2ur ecu and it's tuning. We are 7yrs into this and now all of a sudden it's all wrong? Ok.
Additionally, look up Toyota tundra and you'll see they have the same findings/results with low boost on their stock ecu and v8.
Ill RE to your PM but you are combative. I would really encourage you to search LMS Supercharger and Steve Larkin to learn the basics of the 2ur ecu and it's tuning. We are 7yrs into this and now all of a sudden it's all wrong? Ok.
Additionally, look up Toyota tundra and you'll see they have the same findings/results with low boost on their stock ecu and v8.
Last edited by mikellucci; 12-13-13 at 09:11 AM.
12-13-13, 12:31 PM
#64
I don't think we're on the same page here.
As a statement of fact: Meth/alky injection does significantly more than just cool intake air temps. Why do you think your AFR's get richer when the meth sprays? You are effectively injecting a race gas/water mixture into the engine and that has a very real effect on helping minimize detonation by richening the AF mixture and increasing the effective octane above the 91 or 93 octane you run.
I never said the stock ECU had anything related to the meth/alky at the front end but it reaps the benefits on the back end by not seeing knock.
And you are correct that putting race gas in a stock car with a stock computer won't be beneficial. I never said it would be.
Besides our back and forth there was no prior mention of alky/meth that's why the piggy-backs and standalones got brought up. Personally, I'd rather have a safe tune without meth inj in case I run out, pump fails, line breaks, whatever. Then have meth in place for when I want to turn the wick up...
Additionally, I did look up boosted V8 Tundra's and the ones making good reliable power are running Haltech standalones...
As a statement of fact: Meth/alky injection does significantly more than just cool intake air temps. Why do you think your AFR's get richer when the meth sprays? You are effectively injecting a race gas/water mixture into the engine and that has a very real effect on helping minimize detonation by richening the AF mixture and increasing the effective octane above the 91 or 93 octane you run.
I never said the stock ECU had anything related to the meth/alky at the front end but it reaps the benefits on the back end by not seeing knock.
And you are correct that putting race gas in a stock car with a stock computer won't be beneficial. I never said it would be.
Besides our back and forth there was no prior mention of alky/meth that's why the piggy-backs and standalones got brought up. Personally, I'd rather have a safe tune without meth inj in case I run out, pump fails, line breaks, whatever. Then have meth in place for when I want to turn the wick up...
Additionally, I did look up boosted V8 Tundra's and the ones making good reliable power are running Haltech standalones...
12-13-13, 01:03 PM
#65
I don't think we're on the same page here.
As a statement of fact: Meth/alky injection does significantly more than just cool intake air temps. Why do you think your AFR's get richer when the meth sprays? You are effectively injecting a race gas/water mixture into the engine and that has a very real effect on helping minimize detonation by richening the AF mixture and increasing the effective octane above the 91 or 93 octane you run.
I never said the stock ECU had anything related to the meth/alky at the front end but it reaps the benefits on the back end by not seeing knock.
And you are correct that putting race gas in a stock car with a stock computer won't be beneficial. I never said it would be.
Besides our back and forth there was no prior mention of alky/meth that's why the piggy-backs and standalones got brought up. Personally, I'd rather have a safe tune without meth inj in case I run out, pump fails, line breaks, whatever. Then have meth in place for when I want to turn the wick up...
Additionally, I did look up boosted V8 Tundra's and the ones making good reliable power are running Haltech standalones...
As a statement of fact: Meth/alky injection does significantly more than just cool intake air temps. Why do you think your AFR's get richer when the meth sprays? You are effectively injecting a race gas/water mixture into the engine and that has a very real effect on helping minimize detonation by richening the AF mixture and increasing the effective octane above the 91 or 93 octane you run.
I never said the stock ECU had anything related to the meth/alky at the front end but it reaps the benefits on the back end by not seeing knock.
And you are correct that putting race gas in a stock car with a stock computer won't be beneficial. I never said it would be.
Besides our back and forth there was no prior mention of alky/meth that's why the piggy-backs and standalones got brought up. Personally, I'd rather have a safe tune without meth inj in case I run out, pump fails, line breaks, whatever. Then have meth in place for when I want to turn the wick up...
Additionally, I did look up boosted V8 Tundra's and the ones making good reliable power are running Haltech standalones...
So when will you piggyback your car and start tuning? The only point I was trying to make is the stock ecu on 7lbs is very safe and more than capable of running these motors as 7-8years has proven.
There's always a better more efficient way to do things but at what cost? I'm all for tuning but not at 7psi with a basic centrifugal s/c. I've never done the turbo but despite load driven the tuning results should be the same.
Talk to me when you datalog your car or a customers.
12-14-13, 05:55 PM
#66
Nsteezy... Did you ever purchase the parts for your build? Don't mean to thread jack but you should check out my twin turbo build under the performance 2is section. I successfully installed the electronic oil pump setup today and it's all flowing nicely. I'm dropping my car off on Monday and the shop will start welding up the pipes. I should have it all done and running by the end of the week. Luckily I got a sponsorship deal from GODSPEED or else this project so far would have cost me about $1500 up until this point.
12-17-13, 02:02 PM
#67
Nsteezy... Did you ever purchase the parts for your build? Don't mean to thread jack but you should check out my twin turbo build under the performance 2is section. I successfully installed the electronic oil pump setup today and it's all flowing nicely. I'm dropping my car off on Monday and the shop will start welding up the pipes. I should have it all done and running by the end of the week. Luckily I got a sponsorship deal from GODSPEED or else this project so far would have cost me about $1500 up until this point.
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