1SICK**Write-Up** Drop in K&N filter for 2GS (98-05)
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 24
From: IL
If the filter is properly sized it won't make any difference in power. Has anyone ever actually dyno'd a GS4 or GS3 and compared the power change?
For that matter, anyone ever dyno a GS400? I am curious stock what sort of power they make to the wheels.
For that matter, anyone ever dyno a GS400? I am curious stock what sort of power they make to the wheels.
Pit Crew
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 162
Likes: 3
From: Nevada
My GS400 has ran roughly 100k miles on a SRT (oiled with K&N oil) intake with no problems. I have used oiled intakes on 3 Maximas, a Superduty, a Mustang, a Camaro and both of my road racing cars with no problem.
For those who speak negatively about oiled filters, would you give us specifics on the problems from your personal experience?
For those who speak negatively about oiled filters, would you give us specifics on the problems from your personal experience?
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 24
From: IL
Most people don't keep them long to see the problems. But when you open up the engine you will see the dirt that has scored the cyl walls and piston skirts. So the loss, power, less compression, higher emissions and higher oil consumption.
Most people don't tear it down and look. Most people sell it and drive on. "Oh, its just getting old".... My 94 Fleetwood runs like a champ at 250k miles. Can do burnouts with the best of em and it is nearly a 5000 lb land yacht. I have used a paper AC Delco filter most all its life since I had it, the owner previous appeared to use a paper filter. I used a K&N for a short time, but that was some testing I was doing for breathing underhood heat and the ACTUAL intake air temps.
I can see if I can find my 301 Turbo pistons and show you, I had 70-75k on it tops before I melted a piston down at 115 mph, but looking at the wear inside I wished I hadn't ever used the K&N.
Much depends too, my 301 Turbo pulled air from the left front in front of the front air dam. So it picked up low to the ground dirt. The GS4 I have picks up high, over the radiator. And if you have an SRT, you are breathing underhood air so it is a bit father back too.
The application is a lot of it. Where you drive it a lot of it.
I've seen videos of the tests of it, it does pass a LOT more dirt. No arguing there. It for SURE passes the dirt. A Fram Air Hog is even worse. You can literally LOOK thru the filter in spots.
Most people don't tear it down and look. Most people sell it and drive on. "Oh, its just getting old".... My 94 Fleetwood runs like a champ at 250k miles. Can do burnouts with the best of em and it is nearly a 5000 lb land yacht. I have used a paper AC Delco filter most all its life since I had it, the owner previous appeared to use a paper filter. I used a K&N for a short time, but that was some testing I was doing for breathing underhood heat and the ACTUAL intake air temps.
I can see if I can find my 301 Turbo pistons and show you, I had 70-75k on it tops before I melted a piston down at 115 mph, but looking at the wear inside I wished I hadn't ever used the K&N.
Much depends too, my 301 Turbo pulled air from the left front in front of the front air dam. So it picked up low to the ground dirt. The GS4 I have picks up high, over the radiator. And if you have an SRT, you are breathing underhood air so it is a bit father back too.
The application is a lot of it. Where you drive it a lot of it.
I've seen videos of the tests of it, it does pass a LOT more dirt. No arguing there. It for SURE passes the dirt. A Fram Air Hog is even worse. You can literally LOOK thru the filter in spots.
My GS400 has ran roughly 100k miles on a SRT (oiled with K&N oil) intake with no problems. I have used oiled intakes on 3 Maximas, a Superduty, a Mustang, a Camaro and both of my road racing cars with no problem.
For those who speak negatively about oiled filters, would you give us specifics on the problems from your personal experience?
For those who speak negatively about oiled filters, would you give us specifics on the problems from your personal experience?
Pit Crew
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 162
Likes: 3
From: Nevada
Most people don't keep them long to see the problems. But when you open up the engine you will see the dirt that has scored the cyl walls and piston skirts. So the loss, power, less compression, higher emissions and higher oil consumption.
Most people don't tear it down and look. Most people sell it and drive on. "Oh, its just getting old".... My 94 Fleetwood runs like a champ at 250k miles. Can do burnouts with the best of em and it is nearly a 5000 lb land yacht. I have used a paper AC Delco filter most all its life since I had it, the owner previous appeared to use a paper filter. I used a K&N for a short time, but that was some testing I was doing for breathing underhood heat and the ACTUAL intake air temps.
I can see if I can find my 301 Turbo pistons and show you, I had 70-75k on it tops before I melted a piston down at 115 mph, but looking at the wear inside I wished I hadn't ever used the K&N.
Much depends too, my 301 Turbo pulled air from the left front in front of the front air dam. So it picked up low to the ground dirt. The GS4 I have picks up high, over the radiator. And if you have an SRT, you are breathing underhood air so it is a bit father back too.
The application is a lot of it. Where you drive it a lot of it.
I've seen videos of the tests of it, it does pass a LOT more dirt. No arguing there. It for SURE passes the dirt. A Fram Air Hog is even worse. You can literally LOOK thru the filter in spots.
Most people don't tear it down and look. Most people sell it and drive on. "Oh, its just getting old".... My 94 Fleetwood runs like a champ at 250k miles. Can do burnouts with the best of em and it is nearly a 5000 lb land yacht. I have used a paper AC Delco filter most all its life since I had it, the owner previous appeared to use a paper filter. I used a K&N for a short time, but that was some testing I was doing for breathing underhood heat and the ACTUAL intake air temps.
I can see if I can find my 301 Turbo pistons and show you, I had 70-75k on it tops before I melted a piston down at 115 mph, but looking at the wear inside I wished I hadn't ever used the K&N.
Much depends too, my 301 Turbo pulled air from the left front in front of the front air dam. So it picked up low to the ground dirt. The GS4 I have picks up high, over the radiator. And if you have an SRT, you are breathing underhood air so it is a bit father back too.
The application is a lot of it. Where you drive it a lot of it.
I've seen videos of the tests of it, it does pass a LOT more dirt. No arguing there. It for SURE passes the dirt. A Fram Air Hog is even worse. You can literally LOOK thru the filter in spots.
Well my GS has 151k on it now and 100k of them are with an oiled filter. We will see how many miles goes by before I see the results of using an oiled filter. For me, I have yet to see any damage resulting in any vehicle I have owned from using one.
Here is an interesting test:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 24
From: IL
Amsoil hasn't made that filter for years, they abandoned the old foam filter with oil in it probably 10+ years ago. It was ok, but the frame didn't seal well, basically metal screen (like you see) with foam molded over it. Sometimes you can remove the foam (like the round ones) but most you couldn't. I didn't care for them. I ran one for a while till it disintegrated.... (the Lifetime Filter it was called.. ironic eh?)
Well my GS has 151k on it now and 100k of them are with an oiled filter. We will see how many miles goes by before I see the results of using an oiled filter. For me, I have yet to see any damage resulting in any vehicle I have owned from using one.
Here is an interesting test:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
Here is an interesting test:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
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Never ever use a K&N air filter. Every used oil analysis I have seen with a K&N air filter has shown higher levels of silicon(dirt). This increases engine wear. There is a fellow by the name of Terry Dyson on www.bobistheoilguy.com , who interprets oil analysis reports called dyson analysis and he hates K&N filters! From what he's said, he'd rather use Fram air filters over K&N air filters. I used K&N filter for a trial period of 12,000 miles and guess what, my silicon levels went up and so did my wear numbers(Ld, Fe, Cu, Al).
I agree, K&N's are good at passing flow, but also good at passing dirt.... lots of it... It scores the cylinder walls. Bad stuff.
(oh, and I do like bringing old threads back from the dead from time to time.... a whole new crowd on the forums probably never saw it before)
Yes, paper/cotton filters are cheap, but VERY effective at trapping dirt.
(oh, and I do like bringing old threads back from the dead from time to time.... a whole new crowd on the forums probably never saw it before)
Yes, paper/cotton filters are cheap, but VERY effective at trapping dirt.
My GS400 has ran roughly 100k miles on a SRT (oiled with K&N oil) intake with no problems. I have used oiled intakes on 3 Maximas, a Superduty, a Mustang, a Camaro and both of my road racing cars with no problem.
For those who speak negatively about oiled filters, would you give us specifics on the problems from your personal experience?
For those who speak negatively about oiled filters, would you give us specifics on the problems from your personal experience?
Most people don't keep them long to see the problems. But when you open up the engine you will see the dirt that has scored the cyl walls and piston skirts. So the loss, power, less compression, higher emissions and higher oil consumption.
Most people don't tear it down and look. Most people sell it and drive on. "Oh, its just getting old".... My 94 Fleetwood runs like a champ at 250k miles. Can do burnouts with the best of em and it is nearly a 5000 lb land yacht. I have used a paper AC Delco filter most all its life since I had it, the owner previous appeared to use a paper filter. I used a K&N for a short time, but that was some testing I was doing for breathing underhood heat and the ACTUAL intake air temps.
I can see if I can find my 301 Turbo pistons and show you, I had 70-75k on it tops before I melted a piston down at 115 mph, but looking at the wear inside I wished I hadn't ever used the K&N.
Much depends too, my 301 Turbo pulled air from the left front in front of the front air dam. So it picked up low to the ground dirt. The GS4 I have picks up high, over the radiator. And if you have an SRT, you are breathing underhood air so it is a bit father back too.
The application is a lot of it. Where you drive it a lot of it.
I've seen videos of the tests of it, it does pass a LOT more dirt. No arguing there. It for SURE passes the dirt. A Fram Air Hog is even worse. You can literally LOOK thru the filter in spots.
Most people don't tear it down and look. Most people sell it and drive on. "Oh, its just getting old".... My 94 Fleetwood runs like a champ at 250k miles. Can do burnouts with the best of em and it is nearly a 5000 lb land yacht. I have used a paper AC Delco filter most all its life since I had it, the owner previous appeared to use a paper filter. I used a K&N for a short time, but that was some testing I was doing for breathing underhood heat and the ACTUAL intake air temps.
I can see if I can find my 301 Turbo pistons and show you, I had 70-75k on it tops before I melted a piston down at 115 mph, but looking at the wear inside I wished I hadn't ever used the K&N.
Much depends too, my 301 Turbo pulled air from the left front in front of the front air dam. So it picked up low to the ground dirt. The GS4 I have picks up high, over the radiator. And if you have an SRT, you are breathing underhood air so it is a bit father back too.
The application is a lot of it. Where you drive it a lot of it.
I've seen videos of the tests of it, it does pass a LOT more dirt. No arguing there. It for SURE passes the dirt. A Fram Air Hog is even worse. You can literally LOOK thru the filter in spots.
Although my Oil Analysis came back fine, they did mention my "Silicone" level was a bit higher than normal and i had a bit a "Bearing wear" - well i'm not to happy about that since my car only has 48K miles on her. My car is Immaculate, almost brand new (You can ask any member who has seen my car)
I never knew this about K&N until i saw this thread and correlate it with my oil analysis.. If I knew about K&N's did this I would have NEVER added this Filter. Well at-least i only ran her for about 28K miles with the K&N.. For now, I will put the OEM Filter back in until i can find a suitable Hi-Flow Filter, probably the TRD one.. Thanks guys!
Last edited by 1QWKGS4; Nov 2, 2011 at 01:46 AM. Reason: ..
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 24
From: IL
I guess the other comment is, has anyone ever proven the stock filter (not a Fram or replacement filter), but a STOCK Lexus/Toy filter is really a restriction to power? It is fairly good sized, I am betting it isn't. I think the OEM's are pretty good about having at least adequate filter sizing and the only gains would be from a poorly designed air box, which the GS400 has a good box. I haven't seen a GS3 or GS430 box yet.
And the intake resonators I believe are better for power than worse. I have never see a case where a car has gained performance over the intake resonators being removed. ABA test, stock (new filter), then aftermarket, then back to stock. 3 runs each way with 3 baseline runs before the ABA test begins to ensure car and fluids are up to temp. So you are talking 12 runs to establish some credible power gains (track testing is better than dyno for this)
And the intake resonators I believe are better for power than worse. I have never see a case where a car has gained performance over the intake resonators being removed. ABA test, stock (new filter), then aftermarket, then back to stock. 3 runs each way with 3 baseline runs before the ABA test begins to ensure car and fluids are up to temp. So you are talking 12 runs to establish some credible power gains (track testing is better than dyno for this)
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: TN
I can speak from experience on my LS1 Firebird Formula that too much oil in a K&N air filter will give the MAF meter hell. I ended up having to clean the little hot wires on the MAF meter with alcohol and ear swabs to get the oil off. The car was acting erratic under light load, and it was due to the build up of oil and crude on the wires. I also had a bad experience on a port fuel injection vehicle, it screwed up the sensor on it as well. I still have an oil/foam filter on the Formula with no issues, but out of the box it had too much oil.
Driver
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: TX
I've used K&N airl filters (both drop in and cone with cold air intake) for about 15+ yrs on various vehicles. Long term effect who knows but I am sure it varies on many characteristics .
I've never had an MAF sensor go out or give any trouble in that time except on a Toyota 4Runner back before it had a K&N drop in filter in ir. .
The $47 cost of a new reusable drop in K&N for the GS300 vs spending $15-20 for a paper filter every 3 months stock toyota filter (that gets dirty fast) - who knows exact long term effects and for how long, but I'll just take my chances so I just bought a K&N drop in.
I do not expect any power gain. A drop i is only a decision of rebelling and not buying air filters all the time.
A true cold air intake or ram air can be a power gain in many cases.
In any case the oil tends to dry out pretty fast.
I once had a cold air intake setup on an escalade from AEM Brute Force that does not use oil. AEM dont make one for this GS300 though.
Now with Oil filters I dont use K&N. I use Mobil 1or AC Delco Ultraguard Gold whatever its called, except on the GS300 its OEM Toyota.
I've never had an MAF sensor go out or give any trouble in that time except on a Toyota 4Runner back before it had a K&N drop in filter in ir. .
The $47 cost of a new reusable drop in K&N for the GS300 vs spending $15-20 for a paper filter every 3 months stock toyota filter (that gets dirty fast) - who knows exact long term effects and for how long, but I'll just take my chances so I just bought a K&N drop in.
I do not expect any power gain. A drop i is only a decision of rebelling and not buying air filters all the time.
A true cold air intake or ram air can be a power gain in many cases.
In any case the oil tends to dry out pretty fast.
I once had a cold air intake setup on an escalade from AEM Brute Force that does not use oil. AEM dont make one for this GS300 though.
Now with Oil filters I dont use K&N. I use Mobil 1or AC Delco Ultraguard Gold whatever its called, except on the GS300 its OEM Toyota.
I used kn filters in the past till I put one in my 4runner and went offloading you will not believe how much dirt gets through it. I trashed it and k n no more. By the way it's all sound and no substance. Do 0 to 60 runs and you will see no gains. Every cc of air going through your filter and into your engine is dirtier with a k and N
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 24
From: IL
Personal opinion, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Lexus, etc engineers aren't idiots. They don't underdesign something just to do it, they design it properly so that there isn't a hp loss thru the filter.
I would like to see some serious legit back to back, ABA test, Baseline, mod and return to baseline tests on air filters. Oh, yeah, no one does that.... Wonder why?
Stock paper filter for me, Wix or Toy/Lexus only.
I would like to see some serious legit back to back, ABA test, Baseline, mod and return to baseline tests on air filters. Oh, yeah, no one does that.... Wonder why?
Stock paper filter for me, Wix or Toy/Lexus only.
I used kn filters in the past till I put one in my 4runner and went offloading you will not believe how much dirt gets through it. I trashed it and k n no more. By the way it's all sound and no substance. Do 0 to 60 runs and you will see no gains. Every cc of air going through your filter and into your engine is dirtier with a k and N
I think AEM makes a paper filter for our intakes if your worried about the oil getting to the MAF sensor...
From what Don mentioned i think think i'm going with the paper filter for piece of mind..
From what Don mentioned i think think i'm going with the paper filter for piece of mind..
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