Joez intake concerns...
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: San Diego, CA
Joez intake concerns...
After reading confirmed reports of a ~5hp/tq increase with the joez intake pipe, as well as a nice change of tone in the car I decided to take the plung and order one. I installed it today. I can't say I felt any additional power, nor did I expect to really. I did notice the very subtle change in tone however and it was nice. I installed the intake at my friends house and when I got home, I popped the hood just to take a look at it again, but when I went to touch the pipe, it was VERY hot. Too hot to touch actually which brings me to the same concerns I had with the LMS/Fujita intakes, which is, will it actually make power??? The stock tubing is made of rubber which is a very good insulator versus the joez which is aluminum I believe which does the exact opposite of insulate, it is a very good conductor of heat. I can only imagine that once the engine has completely warmed up and underhood temps start to rise that even the Joez intake will make LESS power than the stock setup. Sure it may be able to take in more air than the stock one, but from my expierences in modding, slighly less COOL air is better then a little more HOT air. Anyone have thoughts on the matter?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Oregon
I've said it before but someone should make joez type tube out of the same rubber/plastic OEM material.
Heat soak: Every 10-11 degrees in temp equals ~1 psi. That's why cars usually feel stronger in the winter. Those with FI will notice the difference in temps considerably more than those with NA engines but heat in the intake charge saps power, period.
With that said, metal intake tubes won't usually get as hot as you mentioned when the car is running because it is continually drawing in cooler air from outside of the engine bay and that's if you're using the stock airbox. If you're using an SRI (short ram intake) you're doubly screwed. Regardless, it will still get much hotter than a rubber/plastic tube as the volume of air being taken in at idle is much less. This will not bode well for staging areas if you're doing the 1/4 or at a stoplight. By the time the tube cools down from the air intake, the race will be over.
If you have to go with a metal intake tube, you can get a reflective thermal tape at some auto parts stores and wrap the tube. It won't look pretty but it'll definitely help.
Heat soak: Every 10-11 degrees in temp equals ~1 psi. That's why cars usually feel stronger in the winter. Those with FI will notice the difference in temps considerably more than those with NA engines but heat in the intake charge saps power, period.
With that said, metal intake tubes won't usually get as hot as you mentioned when the car is running because it is continually drawing in cooler air from outside of the engine bay and that's if you're using the stock airbox. If you're using an SRI (short ram intake) you're doubly screwed. Regardless, it will still get much hotter than a rubber/plastic tube as the volume of air being taken in at idle is much less. This will not bode well for staging areas if you're doing the 1/4 or at a stoplight. By the time the tube cools down from the air intake, the race will be over.
If you have to go with a metal intake tube, you can get a reflective thermal tape at some auto parts stores and wrap the tube. It won't look pretty but it'll definitely help.
Pole Position
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: california
Originally Posted by al503
I've said it before but someone should make joez type tube out of the same rubber/plastic OEM material.
Heat soak: Every 10-11 degrees in temp equals ~1 psi. That's why cars usually feel stronger in the winter. Those with FI will notice the difference in temps considerably more than those with NA engines but heat in the intake charge saps power, period.
With that said, metal intake tubes won't usually get as hot as you mentioned when the car is running because it is continually drawing in cooler air from outside of the engine bay and that's if you're using the stock airbox. If you're using an SRI (short ram intake) you're doubly screwed. Regardless, it will still get much hotter than a rubber/plastic tube as the volume of air being taken in at idle is much less. This will not bode well for staging areas if you're doing the 1/4 or at a stoplight. By the time the tube cools down from the air intake, the race will be over.
If you have to go with a metal intake tube, you can get a reflective thermal tape at some auto parts stores and wrap the tube. It won't look pretty but it'll definitely help.
Heat soak: Every 10-11 degrees in temp equals ~1 psi. That's why cars usually feel stronger in the winter. Those with FI will notice the difference in temps considerably more than those with NA engines but heat in the intake charge saps power, period.
With that said, metal intake tubes won't usually get as hot as you mentioned when the car is running because it is continually drawing in cooler air from outside of the engine bay and that's if you're using the stock airbox. If you're using an SRI (short ram intake) you're doubly screwed. Regardless, it will still get much hotter than a rubber/plastic tube as the volume of air being taken in at idle is much less. This will not bode well for staging areas if you're doing the 1/4 or at a stoplight. By the time the tube cools down from the air intake, the race will be over.
If you have to go with a metal intake tube, you can get a reflective thermal tape at some auto parts stores and wrap the tube. It won't look pretty but it'll definitely help.
The tube is about a foot long. There is no way that short of distance is going to make any measureable differences in the temperature of the air going into the throttle body. What does make a difference in the inlet air temperature is where the air is drawn in from and the outside air temperature. Just my .02 If this was an issue all the top intake companies like AEM wouldn't be making metal intake pips but using cheaper rubber/plastic ones instead.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Oregon
Originally Posted by caymandive
The tube is about a foot long. There is no way that short of distance is going to make any measureable differences in the temperature of the air going into the throttle body. What does make a difference in the inlet air temperature is where the air is drawn in from and the outside air temperature. Just my .02 If this was an issue all the top intake companies like AEM wouldn't be making metal intake pips but using cheaper rubber/plastic ones instead.
In terms of the longer CAI's: one of the main reasons they're made out of metal is their weight and length. In many cases, there are no mounting points for the stock tube as it's lightweight and the connections at the stock airbox and at the throttle body are enough to secure it. With CAI's that can be 4 to 5 feet in length, the stock rubber/plastic material won't be strong enough to keep it's shape especially with a large filter element/housing at the very end of it. That's why they have to use metal.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
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From: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted by caymandive
The tube is about a foot long. There is no way that short of distance is going to make any measureable differences in the temperature of the air going into the throttle body. What does make a difference in the inlet air temperature is where the air is drawn in from and the outside air temperature. Just my .02 If this was an issue all the top intake companies like AEM wouldn't be making metal intake pips but using cheaper rubber/plastic ones instead.
I can't say I agree... A hair dryer has a mere 3 or 4 inches of heat element and the air gets quite hot. While the pipe obviously does not get that hot, it IS a lot longer and has much more surface area which can and will heat up the air IMO. The fact that it won't get AS hot when the car is actually running is actually proof of that, the only reason it doesn't get as hot is becuase much of that heat is being transferred to the intake charge going into the motor.
I've already put my stock intake back on. While the JOEZ is a better design than the LMS/Fujita, IMO it is still inferior to the stock setup unless you can find a way to shield the pipe, which is difficult seeing that it is aluminum.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,680
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From: Oregon
Originally Posted by Dj Rando
Would your honest opinion be to take my fujita off and replace it with the stock intake? I am getting the tanabe today, so the extra growl wont be necessary anymore. And would putting a k&n filter in the stock intake be better? You seem to know alot about intakes, so help would be appriciated
I'm not a big fan of K&N filters. They provide better flow at the expense of filtration, which is OK if you don't plan on keeping your car long term.
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i dont think the incoming air would even have time to get heated up signigicantly going through 1 foot of aluminum tubing.
any documentation on this, ive used a K&N for 40k+ miles on my prelude and have had oil samples from blackstone and they indicated everything was normal, bad filtration wouldve made an above normal reading of silicon
Originally Posted by al503
I'm not a big fan of K&N filters. They provide better flow at the expense of filtration, which is OK if you don't plan on keeping your car long term.
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Gotta think about it also, just how fast is that cool air running through the pipe.
The air gets through that tube so quickly it has no time to heat up significantly to effect anything on a NA car. The air might heat up an additional 5 degrees, but even that would be a significant jump in temperature over the course of 1 foot. You will not feel a 5 deegree difference in intake temperatures. 40 degrees yes.... 5 no way.
The air gets through that tube so quickly it has no time to heat up significantly to effect anything on a NA car. The air might heat up an additional 5 degrees, but even that would be a significant jump in temperature over the course of 1 foot. You will not feel a 5 deegree difference in intake temperatures. 40 degrees yes.... 5 no way.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Oregon
Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
i dont think the incoming air would even have time to get heated up signigicantly going through 1 foot of aluminum tubing.
2. If so, where do you think that heat is going? It's not disappearing by magic. Like Ramon says, it's being transferred directly into the engine.
any documentation on this, ive used a K&N for 40k+ miles on my prelude and have had oil samples from blackstone and they indicated everything was normal, bad filtration wouldve made an above normal reading of silicon
In regards to your blackstone reports, getting normal readings doesn't address whether a stock paper filter will filter better than your K&N. It just tells you that there is a certain level of silicon with the K&N. The only way to make sure would be to get a report with a stock filter installed and compare.
Originally Posted by al503
Get a short aluminum pipe and heat it up. Pour some water through it. Are you trying to tell us that the water won't be warmer at the other end?
.
.
The benefits of the JOEZ pipe outway any possible heat related issues.
I found this from Sport Compact Car: Seems to fit right along with this discussion.
"Some will claim that heat from the engine compartment will be transferred through the pipe of the intake system and into the air passing through the pipe, but this is not true. Testing by Sport Compact Car showed negligible change in intake temperature between where it enters the filter and when it passes through the throttlebody. Their conclusion was that the air is passing through the pipe at a high enough speed that it does not have time to pick up any heat from the pipe itself. Further evidence of this is the fact that the Ice Man brand intake system, made of heat insulating PVC plastic, tested at 9 HP while the AEM brand intake system, made of heat conducting aluminum, tested at 12.9 HP. The conclusion is clear that the design of the intake system is more important than what type of pipe is used to make the intake system"
"Some will claim that heat from the engine compartment will be transferred through the pipe of the intake system and into the air passing through the pipe, but this is not true. Testing by Sport Compact Car showed negligible change in intake temperature between where it enters the filter and when it passes through the throttlebody. Their conclusion was that the air is passing through the pipe at a high enough speed that it does not have time to pick up any heat from the pipe itself. Further evidence of this is the fact that the Ice Man brand intake system, made of heat insulating PVC plastic, tested at 9 HP while the AEM brand intake system, made of heat conducting aluminum, tested at 12.9 HP. The conclusion is clear that the design of the intake system is more important than what type of pipe is used to make the intake system"
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Oregon
Originally Posted by Tmirk
The air gets through that tube so quickly it has no time to heat up significantly to effect anything on a NA car. The air might heat up an additional 5 degrees, but even that would be a significant jump in temperature over the course of 1 foot. You will not feel a 5 deegree difference in intake temperatures. 40 degrees yes.... 5 no way.
For the sake of argument, 5 degrees equals ~.5 psi. Being able to get that much more 02 in each cylinder will definitely help in the power department. Whether one is able to feel it might be a different story but it will help. That much is a certainty.
Originally Posted by Ramon
After reading confirmed reports of a ~5hp/tq increase with the joez intake pipe, as well as a nice change of tone in the car I decided to take the plung and order one. I installed it today. I can't say I felt any additional power, nor did I expect to really. I did notice the very subtle change in tone however and it was nice. I installed the intake at my friends house and when I got home, I popped the hood just to take a look at it again, but when I went to touch the pipe, it was VERY hot. Too hot to touch actually which brings me to the same concerns I had with the LMS/Fujita intakes, which is, will it actually make power??? The stock tubing is made of rubber which is a very good insulator versus the joez which is aluminum I believe which does the exact opposite of insulate, it is a very good conductor of heat. I can only imagine that once the engine has completely warmed up and underhood temps start to rise that even the Joez intake will make LESS power than the stock setup. Sure it may be able to take in more air than the stock one, but from my expierences in modding, slighly less COOL air is better then a little more HOT air. Anyone have thoughts on the matter?
The resonator and the accordian section of an intake pipe can be very restrictive to air flow. These pieces are designed to reduce intake sound, and performance is not typically a greatest concern here as we are only talking maybe 5hp in exchange for a quiet intake system. Removing the resonator and the accordion part of the intake tube works as left in it does not allow very good air flow. The ribs of the hose extend into the air flow and cause turbulence, reducing flow.
The JOEZ intake pipe addresses both of these 2 concerns. How can we go wrong!?