Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Yep, I agree. I think its a tossup on what you're willing to sacrifice, aesthetics aside- lol, the more efficient setups, sometimes are more unsightly. There is no perfect intake and/or filter, but I plan to run an aftermarket filter with a bit more flow rate, and a wrapped JoeZ intake tube (should space permit) in the near future. It will probably be a modest gain, but there is nothing to lose by this method.

Ramon

Well I compared both myself, and it is significantly more. You can disagree if you want. The amount of heat the stock pipe absorbs is nothing compared to aluminum. period. C'mon now, rubber vs aluminum?? one's a conductor one's and insulator, you can't even start to comapre their heat absorbtion.

I will not explain again why the pipe is cooler when you're driving as I have done so three tiems already and al503 also explained it once or twice in this thread. Bottom line is that Joez conducts more heat which equals less power, the increaes in flow over oem is neglagable. A warapped joez would be the best solution for performance until a better design comes along.

caymandive

iTrader: (2)

I have dyno'd my car multiple times and the day that I dyno'd with the JOEZ intake pipe, my numbers were getting better and better for each run I made and we only let the car idle for maybe 30-60 seconds between each run. Based on that, heat soak isn't an issue with this pipe. Plain and simple.

Ramon

The car was dyno'd with the hood opened with fans blowing at it allowing much of the heat to be dissapated into the atmosphere versus into the engine. Unless you're going to drive around with your hood removed, it is an entirely different scenario on the street.

caymandive

iTrader: (2)

Well this argument could go back and for all day. We all have our thoughts on how this actually works. I firmly believe this pipe is way way too short to affect the performance of this car with heated air by conduction. The removal of the accordian ribs and the resonator far outway any possible negative affect of heated intake air. Now someone give us a decent drop in filter and this intake setup will be the best we can get without having a TRUE CAI. I'm hoping Blitz comes out with one soon.

Ramon

A decent drop-in and the oem intake will be the best we can get without having a true CAI is what I would have said To each their own.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

Ramon, this is information pulled from AEMs site, which coincides with what I stated before concerning volumetric efficiency and temp. The ambient airs velocity, in combination with temperature are what will have a greater effect on power. The pipes absorbing of heat doesn't mean its being released into the actual intake air charge at the same rate, based on the speed its traveling through the rather short pipe.



# We use aluminum to eliminate any chance of the system rusting, and it's lighter than steel

# We limit our use of plastic because this material absorbs some of the sound energy we work to create in the inlet duct

# Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power

# The rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material

Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel, or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power. We have found that the tuning of the pipe, in addition to providing the coolest inlet air source, are the keys to making useable power. We perform engine inlet-air-temp studies when developing each application to determine the coolest location for sourcing inlet air. In addition to this, we determine the safest location for the inlet source to protect it from highly dusty conditions and water. To this end, we provide a stainless-steel heat shield to help minimize heat soak into the inlet area, as well as to provide protection from dust, dirt and mud.


At light throttle opening, air speed and airflow at the inlet system are relatively low. The high residence time of air in the inlet while at low-throttle settings will increase inlet charge temps when materials with high thermal conductivity are used. Typically, when someone is at light throttle they are not asking the engine to make power. Most likely, fuel economy is the issue.

When the throttle is fully opened however, air speed and airflow increase considerably. Typically, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.

Basically, the rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material. We hope that this helps to clear up the issues of material heat absorption in intake systems. Thank you for taking the time to read this, we welcome your comments and feedback!

Ramon

That information is hardly unbiased though givin that they are trying to defend their own product. And we don't exactly know what "little effect on power" means either. Keep in mind we're only talking about a MAX of a 6HP gain with the joez when it is NOT heat soaked. In the case of the IS, which is not a 5.7L engine and doesn't get much benifit to begin with from the intake, that "little effect" could mean a lot.

caymandive

iTrader: (2)

Nice find Shinobi-X. Makes total sense to me and hopefully makes sense and convinces some of the non-believers out there. Come on guys ...swallow some of that pride.

caymandive

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to be a little off topic here, but Shinobi-X you interested in going to Capital raceway this Friday night? I'm planning to go unless it rains.

casey225

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that aluminum is not a great conductor of heat or electricity, so if the Joe Z pipe is hot, it isn't transferring much of the heat to the inflow air. Secondly, air is also a poor conductor and, therefore, will not absorb that much heat from the pipe. Air coming into the Joe Z is cooler than air which which would be sucked in from under the hood. I doubt the temperature of the air going through the Joe Z will increase significantly and would bet the farm it is still significantly cooler at the throttle body than those which may be better insulated, but pull hot air from under the hood.

Ramon

What are you talking about... Copper, Silver and Aluminum are among the best heat conductors out there.

al503

There are 2 uses for ice when you go to the track.

1. keep your beverage of choice cold
2. you can put the ice on top of the intake plenum/manifold for the 'poor man's intercooler.'

You have to ask yourself if the car, driver, tires, etc., were all the same, who is going to win the race? The guy with the cooler intake charge would get my $.

caymandive

iTrader: (2)

Yeah that is a true statement. Aluminum is in the top 3.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

They are trying to sell their product, but the idea behind their findings remains legit. For example, when passing your hand over an open flame, the speed at which you move your hand, dictates how much heat will be absorbed before you get burned. Its the same idea with air moving through a tube. With a CAI, the entire piece is made of the same material, which includes bends, therefore the velocity of air moving through slows as it manuevers through these bends. Since this pipe is only 1 foot long, air doesn't have enough time to become warmed dramatically when passing through for the short period of time that it does. This is why ambient air temp is more important.

True, but that was on a longer cold air intake, which has more time to heat incoming air, depending on the setup. It's also why I stated that I would wrap the JoeZ intake to protect it from radiant heat. I think it still stands though, that a smoother route for air to pass, is better than a bumpy one.

Without a doubt, but also keep in mind that the second part of the modification should come in the form of a free(er) flowing filter. The combination of these two should yield closer to 10hp at the wheels dependent on more important factors, such as ambient air temp, rpm, throttle position, volumetric efficiency, and type of filter used. Just as it takes time for metal to heat soak, it also takes time for it to effect air, made longer when its moving air.

It may not be 5.7L, but our motor works just like any other engine; air and fuel are burned, and power is made depedent on the amount of air burned. A bigger throttle body generally does add power; on a lesser scale, so does flooring the throttle, allowing more air in. The displacement is not all too important in this regard, but caymandive has produced some dyno numbers (which is all we have to go on presently), that show a marginal, yet consistent increase in power. I guess its up to the individual, but I believe the facts presented here, along with his results are pretty accurate in their representation.

If you'd like to sell your JoeZ intake though, I'd take it off your hands.