Turbocharged GS400 and so it has begun
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
From: SGV
Here are the breakdown on 1UZFE built bottom (shortblock) would cost
Custom Forged Pistons: 1k
Custom Forged Rods: 1,500
ARP Rod studs:100
ARP Head Studs: 400
MLS Gaskets 200
Aftermarket Bearings: 200
Crank Seals: 30
Labor, balanced and blueprint with assembly about 600.
So total for the shortblock is about 4k. I am building one right now.
Piggyback is suffecient if you dont plan to run more than 16 psi. If more than that.... then u might consider standalone.
Custom Forged Pistons: 1k
Custom Forged Rods: 1,500
ARP Rod studs:100
ARP Head Studs: 400
MLS Gaskets 200
Aftermarket Bearings: 200
Crank Seals: 30
Labor, balanced and blueprint with assembly about 600.
So total for the shortblock is about 4k. I am building one right now.
Piggyback is suffecient if you dont plan to run more than 16 psi. If more than that.... then u might consider standalone.
Last edited by Lextreme; Apr 13, 2005 at 09:12 AM.
Originally Posted by klynchgs4
Morris,
Just throwing in my $0.02 here. I too am going down the turbo path after having the RMM S/C (I bought Jeff a/k/a TTurboPimp's kit). Originally, I was not going to build up the engine - thinking I'd keep the boost low and conserve a bit on costs. Then I called Mo to get some info on the install. He tells me that the weakest link in our engines is the pistons and that he'd make me a great deal on some brand new, ceramic coated custom pistons he had made. So now I'm sold on the pistons. Mo then asks me what fuel management I was planning to use. I was going to use this thing called MAP ECU (heard great things about it). Mo tells me that thing is absolute crap, and he didn't have positive things to say about Greddy Emanage either. What Mo is now using (and I picked up one from him as well) is a Haltech unit (don't remember the model number). Anyway, this unit can be set so that if you have a spike in boost, the fuel will shut off and you don't blow your motor (sounded good to me - especially after hearing that was how one guy blew his motor). Then a few days later I ask Mo about the benefit of changing rods and how much more that adds to my final cost between parts and labor. Turns out it's all parts - not really any additional labor since they will already have my engine apart. The only thing that sucks (aside from the $'s) is the time - can take up to 12 weeks to get the rods. But according to Mo, upgrade the pistons and rods, the engine is bullet proof. So I figure for a small amount of additional $'s (relatively speaking) I insure against replacing the entire engine down the road. Then further, I bought Mariusz's tranny - I figure I'll install that one and keep my Level 10 tranny in my garage (just in case I kill the SRT one).
So I guess where I'm going with this is the old saying, don't be pennywise and pound foolish. Going turbo on our cars is not cheap and trying to cut corners could cost you significantly more down the road. Good luck with your install and I hope all goes well.
Just throwing in my $0.02 here. I too am going down the turbo path after having the RMM S/C (I bought Jeff a/k/a TTurboPimp's kit). Originally, I was not going to build up the engine - thinking I'd keep the boost low and conserve a bit on costs. Then I called Mo to get some info on the install. He tells me that the weakest link in our engines is the pistons and that he'd make me a great deal on some brand new, ceramic coated custom pistons he had made. So now I'm sold on the pistons. Mo then asks me what fuel management I was planning to use. I was going to use this thing called MAP ECU (heard great things about it). Mo tells me that thing is absolute crap, and he didn't have positive things to say about Greddy Emanage either. What Mo is now using (and I picked up one from him as well) is a Haltech unit (don't remember the model number). Anyway, this unit can be set so that if you have a spike in boost, the fuel will shut off and you don't blow your motor (sounded good to me - especially after hearing that was how one guy blew his motor). Then a few days later I ask Mo about the benefit of changing rods and how much more that adds to my final cost between parts and labor. Turns out it's all parts - not really any additional labor since they will already have my engine apart. The only thing that sucks (aside from the $'s) is the time - can take up to 12 weeks to get the rods. But according to Mo, upgrade the pistons and rods, the engine is bullet proof. So I figure for a small amount of additional $'s (relatively speaking) I insure against replacing the entire engine down the road. Then further, I bought Mariusz's tranny - I figure I'll install that one and keep my Level 10 tranny in my garage (just in case I kill the SRT one).
So I guess where I'm going with this is the old saying, don't be pennywise and pound foolish. Going turbo on our cars is not cheap and trying to cut corners could cost you significantly more down the road. Good luck with your install and I hope all goes well.
I've heard good things about SRT and would tend to trust what they have to say or at least I'd listen intently. But I dont know if I would have them do my work, one they are 700 miles from me, if something needs fixing later I dont want to have to tow the car 700 miles. The other thing I have been told is that they are slooooowwww, which would also be an issue for me. I will look further at the Haltech units though
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,124
Likes: 32
From: Texas
It is GREAT to see another turbo project. Congratulations on taking this on.
Now, let me address a couple of things. Exhaust manifolds: your stock ones will work but they are restrictive at 235rwhp let alone over 400rwhp. The tundra manifolds DO NOT fit. You are out of money so the header project is out for now but the good news is they will fit and will be a good upgrade when you can do it.
The KEY to any high output engine is preventing detonation. This is done with tuning both the fuel and the timing. To prevent detonation you must have a combination of fuel, timing and pressure that is below the detonation threshold of the engine combination and fuel used.
Your supercharger made 10psi max boost BUT at the torque peak (around 4000rpm) it made less boost. Torque peak is when the MOST air mass flows at a given intake event. Each time the intake valves open and the piston goes down is an intake event. Maximum torque happens because at the RPM that the torque peak occurs... the highest amount of air mass enters the cylinder at each separate intake event. This is what bags is talking about with volumetric efficiency.
Now, there are a number of variables regarding boost. Arguably the most important difference between the type of supercharger that you had (centrifugal) and a turbo is that the turbo will make full boost at your torque peak where the SC did not.
WHAT THIS MEANS is that the engine is going to be more susceptible to detonation, at torque peak, with the turbo than with the previous SC setup. What worked with the SC may not work at torque peak with the turbo. You may need to lower boost for the turbo to work with the fuel and timing system used on the SC. Otherwise, you will need to adjust the timing and fuel maps so that detonation DOES NOT OCCUR.
The good news is that the turbo will probably make as much or more power at a lower boost than the SC did. The reason why is another LONG discussion.
Now, let me address a couple of things. Exhaust manifolds: your stock ones will work but they are restrictive at 235rwhp let alone over 400rwhp. The tundra manifolds DO NOT fit. You are out of money so the header project is out for now but the good news is they will fit and will be a good upgrade when you can do it.
The KEY to any high output engine is preventing detonation. This is done with tuning both the fuel and the timing. To prevent detonation you must have a combination of fuel, timing and pressure that is below the detonation threshold of the engine combination and fuel used.
Your supercharger made 10psi max boost BUT at the torque peak (around 4000rpm) it made less boost. Torque peak is when the MOST air mass flows at a given intake event. Each time the intake valves open and the piston goes down is an intake event. Maximum torque happens because at the RPM that the torque peak occurs... the highest amount of air mass enters the cylinder at each separate intake event. This is what bags is talking about with volumetric efficiency.
Now, there are a number of variables regarding boost. Arguably the most important difference between the type of supercharger that you had (centrifugal) and a turbo is that the turbo will make full boost at your torque peak where the SC did not.
WHAT THIS MEANS is that the engine is going to be more susceptible to detonation, at torque peak, with the turbo than with the previous SC setup. What worked with the SC may not work at torque peak with the turbo. You may need to lower boost for the turbo to work with the fuel and timing system used on the SC. Otherwise, you will need to adjust the timing and fuel maps so that detonation DOES NOT OCCUR.
The good news is that the turbo will probably make as much or more power at a lower boost than the SC did. The reason why is another LONG discussion.
Thanks that was very very helpful and cleared up quite a few things for me. I didnt realize that the manifolds were restrictive, but like you said it makes another good upgrade for phase 2.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,159
Likes: 0
From: California
Would it be better to have the pistons forged or CNC machined? What about the rods, i have the same question for that too. Reason i ask is i have access to CNC machine shop, i work in the office portion of it, so if i could just take a block and machine it to what i need itd be easier for me than waiting the 12 weeks for rods.
You want forged CNC is a way of cutting the metal, while forged is how the metal is made. CNC produces exact cuts and Forged creates strong metal. The rods in the 1uz are not titanium they are cast.
The rods and pistons are currently availble
http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2811
The rods and pistons are currently availble
http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2811
Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
OK, going to ask an incredibly dumb question...
I thought Lexus used titanium (very strong and light) connecting rods on the V8 - so why would custom forged ones be needed?
I thought Lexus used titanium (very strong and light) connecting rods on the V8 - so why would custom forged ones be needed?
Are you sure your not thinking about the valves?
Originally Posted by bags
Are you sure your not thinking about the valves?
http://www.motorsportscenter.com/article_531.shtml
I see Lamborghini has 'em too.
http://www.automotive-technology.com...o/diablo6.html
Oh well...
Originally Posted by morris
You want forged CNC is a way of cutting the metal, while forged is how the metal is made. CNC produces exact cuts and Forged creates strong metal. The rods in the 1uz are not titanium they are cast.
As I understand it cast basically means metal poured into a mold while forged means pressed, beaten, forced into a shape while hot. The poured (cast) metal will have bubbles, weaknesses and more impurities and defects than a forged piece but cast is way cheaper of course. This is the same issue with rims.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 1
From: NY
Hi Morris,
In regards to your ecu and vvti concerns, I found this on supraforums
http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/
I wish I could read Japanese, but maybe you can find someone to translate for you.
In regards to your ecu and vvti concerns, I found this on supraforums
http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/
I wish I could read Japanese, but maybe you can find someone to translate for you.