w58 vs r154?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,146
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From: State College, PA
w58 vs r154?
w58 vs r154?
I cant find a strait answer, How much Horsepower/torque can each handle safely?
Iv heard the R154 is better, but then i also hear the w58 is the better choice, So whats the deal, Pipe in
I cant find a strait answer, How much Horsepower/torque can each handle safely?
Iv heard the R154 is better, but then i also hear the w58 is the better choice, So whats the deal, Pipe in
I personally wouldn't pay anyting extra for a R154, i've had 3 friends with MK3 supra's making no more then 300 hp that have all went through several R154 trans..
alot of people claim they are stronger then the W58, i dunno if that's true or not first gear normally doesn't last long if your trying to dish out a little abuse, I think it fits in the same boat as the W58, if you don't beat the hell out of it, it will hold up for a good while.
here's a link with some technical info on the R154 http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/pag...nical/R154.htm
R154's always seem to be pretty expensive though, i'd almost rather just buy a spare W58..
but you know the real answer, save up for a V160/161
alot of people claim they are stronger then the W58, i dunno if that's true or not first gear normally doesn't last long if your trying to dish out a little abuse, I think it fits in the same boat as the W58, if you don't beat the hell out of it, it will hold up for a good while.
here's a link with some technical info on the R154 http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/pag...nical/R154.htm
R154's always seem to be pretty expensive though, i'd almost rather just buy a spare W58..
but you know the real answer, save up for a V160/161
here's a link with some technical info on the R154 http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/pag...nical/R154.htm
R154's always seem to be pretty expensive though, i'd almost rather just buy a spare W58..
but you know the real answer, save up for a V160/161
Dude that link alone is work gold. Saving to favorites. I currently have a w58 in my SC with, so far so good, pushing the twins to max. And I have been trying 2 years to break it so I can swap in a R154, alas, no luck I feel the W58 is getting a bad rap on thier reliability. Now that I think about it, I found more R154 failures on this and other forums then, W58's. Might be that I am looking in the wrong place. But anyway I do have spare R if and when the W goes south. I agree on W cost to R, hell some cases you can have 2 spare W at the cost of one R.
The W58 is a great transmission. It shifts real smooth, and can hold decent power. In Australia a lot of people convert their v8 soarers to 5-sp and all prefer the w58 over the r154.
My response is not in any way to flame aka paco's, but he did say "in my opinion". Mine, however, differs greatly. Where as he has friends whose R154's have failed on them, I know of two great local examples of high horsepower holding R154's. The first is in a guy named Chris's MK3, which I believe has one the highest Horsepower 7M's period (800 something wheel). The only mods done to this tranny are beefier thrust washers and Marlin Crawler rebuild parts (like mine). The second is in a second gen GS (T74, 1000cc, gte motor, 20psi and up all the time) that get's beaten on daily. This is a stock R154 in a 4000lb car.
Does this mean you should buy an R154? It's up to you. I just stated examples that support "my opinion" that this is a very strong transmission. I've had mine apart next to a W58 and the designs are different.
Furthermore, are 17+ year old Mk3 tranny's a disappointment when they've never been rebuilt, and then break? Is it harder to bolt an R154 to a 1UZ than it is a W58? Are either going to hold up to drifting abuse? Can you justify spending almost what you paid for your car on a V160 swap? I like my R154 and would buy it all over again, but I'm only making about 350 wheel so...
Does this mean you should buy an R154? It's up to you. I just stated examples that support "my opinion" that this is a very strong transmission. I've had mine apart next to a W58 and the designs are different.
Furthermore, are 17+ year old Mk3 tranny's a disappointment when they've never been rebuilt, and then break? Is it harder to bolt an R154 to a 1UZ than it is a W58? Are either going to hold up to drifting abuse? Can you justify spending almost what you paid for your car on a V160 swap? I like my R154 and would buy it all over again, but I'm only making about 350 wheel so...
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Norcal
I would say i'm over the 300hp mark and my R154 is doing just fine. As stated above there are many mk3 owners running from 400 all the way up to 800+ with the R154, and all are doing fine...
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I do believe that the R154 is stronger, I am just saying that W58 is always getting bad mouth and I have yet to see the data to back it up. Yea a few failures here and there. But I have not seen a pattern of failures. Again, I do have a R154 in reserve (picked up for a little less than 4 bills). So I do acknowledge there abilities. My goals are consersative, 325-400 rhwp is more than I need. I think you can't go wrong with either if your goals are in the 400hp range.
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I do believe that the R154 is stronger, I am just saying that W58 is always getting bad mouth and I have yet to see the data to back it up. Yea a few failures here and there. But I have not seen a pattern of failures. Again, I do have a R154 in reserve (picked up for a little less than 4 bills). So I do acknowledge there abilities. My goals are consersative, 325-400 rhwp is more than I need. I think you can't go wrong with either if your goals are in the 400hp range.
None of these Toyota tranny's are weak. Except those W55's.
For the W58 it all depends on how the previous owner treated the transmission and how you currently drive it. If the previous owner was an older gentleman that barely drove it and had the fluids changed regularly then the transmission will be in much better shape than as to someone who was late on fluid changes and dumped the clutch a lot, power shifted everywhere, etc. On my first W58 I did not know the previous owner and how he treated it. I had my car for about 6 months before I turbocharged it. I drove it normally and changed the fluids but I did beat on it quite a bit. I did plenty of burnouts, racing, launches, power shifting etc. I was at 309rwhp for about a year then around 400rwhp for 6 months. It finally went out on me after a hard shift from 1st to 2nd. Every gear was gone except 4th.
So my point being, beat on it everyday with even 300rwhp and it will not last long. However if driven respectfully the W58 can and has held 500rwhp.
Just my two cents
So my point being, beat on it everyday with even 300rwhp and it will not last long. However if driven respectfully the W58 can and has held 500rwhp.
Just my two cents
it's the torque that wears the transmission, not the horsepower. The w58 shifts much smoother than the R154 and the R154 is slightly smoother than the getrag's when shifting. The w58 is fine if you boost on a stock unopened 2jz-ge motor. You'll have plenty of acceleration fun with the stock NA final drive ratio as well. Keep it simple and enjoy driving your car more instead of fixing it...
As for other members commenting on previous history of the trans...my 2nd trans died after a few thousand miles on a fresh rebuild. New synchros, etc. Granted I didn't have the gears xrayed or anything for cracks, but they where never intended to cope with any significant torque. The trans came from a nonboosted 2j, so the power put through it was never a lot.
If you are planning on increasing power a reasonable amount, then prepare to upgrade the transmission as well at some point. It is a common enough failure point now to know better. If you are only aiming for 300whp...why bother. 300whp is barely enough for an SC to get out of its own way
