Premium fuel really needed?
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 435
Likes: 122
From: NY
lol you're free to do as you please but in all honestly ethanol is great for engines. The hygroscopic argument does not really apply to anhydrous ethanol which is what we have in the US, not south american ethanol, plus your fuel system is sealed, and the ethanol is treated.
It doesn't degrade power, what you're referring to is the loss of raw energy. But a design change and things would be different. Ethanol also cleans out deposits left by gasoline in your engine, consider that.
Ethanol is not the end all fuel but rather a healthy alternative of fuels that will move things along.
It doesn't degrade power, what you're referring to is the loss of raw energy. But a design change and things would be different. Ethanol also cleans out deposits left by gasoline in your engine, consider that.
Ethanol is not the end all fuel but rather a healthy alternative of fuels that will move things along.
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,312
Likes: 541
From: Florida
lol you're free to do as you please but in all honestly ethanol is great for engines. The hygroscopic argument does not really apply to anhydrous ethanol which is what we have in the US, not south american ethanol, plus your fuel system is sealed, and the ethanol is treated.
It doesn't degrade power, what you're referring to is the loss of raw energy. But a design change and things would be different. Ethanol also cleans out deposits left by gasoline in your engine, consider that.
Ethanol is not the end all fuel but rather a healthy alternative of fuels that will move things along.
It doesn't degrade power, what you're referring to is the loss of raw energy. But a design change and things would be different. Ethanol also cleans out deposits left by gasoline in your engine, consider that.
Ethanol is not the end all fuel but rather a healthy alternative of fuels that will move things along.
Even the EPA said that growing corn for fuel will cause more harm to our environment that help by saving oil. Would have been stopped long ago if not for the Corn Lobby.
Done here, neither of us will be convinced.
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 435
Likes: 122
From: NY
That is because they are at the beginnings of mass production ethanol. You can't expect the refinement level of oil after 130 years of R&D. The harm is debateable. It is not harm like removing fossil fuels, nothing tops that. So you're phrasing things in a way that can't really be compared. The ag. damage from ethanol will never come close to the damage from removing fossil fuels permanently.
I don't have to convince you or anyone, the facts exist in solid concrete data. You remind me of the crowd that refuses to acknowledge science and sticks to their guns no matter the cost.
I don't have to convince you or anyone, the facts exist in solid concrete data. You remind me of the crowd that refuses to acknowledge science and sticks to their guns no matter the cost.
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,878
Likes: 428
From: Idaho
I refuse to believe that there is anything good about ethanol in our gas except due to the pressure from the corn lobby. Ethanol is crap and degrades engine power and will suck water where ever it can find it. If they move to E15 or worst E20 we will all end up paying even more for E10 that they will have to keep offering for a long time.
Well then you will stay in the past along with all the people who said the same about synthetic oil. You can refuse to believe all you want like the Catholic Church lol There's only so much you can keep refuting before the science continues to say otherwise. Might you tell us why you are so reluctant?
Bringing religion into the discussion is unnecessary, counter-productive, and imo argumentative. Your opinion as to various religions is beyond off-topic. Argue with someone who's had the benefit of a Jesuit education and be ready to lose the argument. That's apparent at this point.
lol you're free to do as you please but in all honestly ethanol is great for engines. The hygroscopic argument does not really apply to anhydrous ethanol which is what we have in the US, not south american ethanol, plus your fuel system is sealed, and the ethanol is treated.
It doesn't degrade power, what you're referring to is the loss of raw energy. But a design change and things would be different. Ethanol also cleans out deposits left by gasoline in your engine, consider that.
Ethanol is not the end all fuel but rather a healthy alternative of fuels that will move things along.
It doesn't degrade power, what you're referring to is the loss of raw energy. But a design change and things would be different. Ethanol also cleans out deposits left by gasoline in your engine, consider that.
Ethanol is not the end all fuel but rather a healthy alternative of fuels that will move things along.
If BTU's with an ethanol blend are lower than straight gasoline, it is in fact degrading power. Deposits can be treated with a number of OTC chemicals, or simply left as is.
Ethanol is a result of the clean air act...the government gets in bed with corn farmers who apparently can make more $$ with ethanol v. corn for human consumption.
That is because they are at the beginnings of mass production ethanol. You can't expect the refinement level of oil after 130 years of R&D. The harm is debateable. It is not harm like removing fossil fuels, nothing tops that. So you're phrasing things in a way that can't really be compared. The ag. damage from ethanol will never come close to the damage from removing fossil fuels permanently.
I don't have to convince you or anyone, the facts exist in solid concrete data. You remind me of the crowd that refuses to acknowledge science and sticks to their guns no matter the cost.
I don't have to convince you or anyone, the facts exist in solid concrete data. You remind me of the crowd that refuses to acknowledge science and sticks to their guns no matter the cost.
Watch out. Gore, not DARPA, invented the internet. He's a great example of a typical proponent of "clean air"...how much crap does his private jet leave in the atmosphere as the good fairy flies all over the place?
We won't even address the monster carbon footprint that batteries on electric or hybrid vehicles leave...once you consider costs of electrical generation to recharge the batteries as well as the costs to dispose of them loaded with cadmium and or lithium...I'll take an engine deposit or 2 v. heavy metals.
danielTRLK, what is the nature of your business? I've asked that once before and never received an answer. It may be time to man-up and define your involvement in ethanol. Curious minds, etc.
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 435
Likes: 122
From: NY
Ethanol lacks raw energy, power is more than just energy. you make more power from ethanol than gasoline because of other factors. energy does not equal power. saying you will be more efficient with gasoline in a GASOLINE engine, is factually correct. Ethanol in a design for an ethanol engine would probably be more efficient than gasoline, remains to be seen one day.
A lot of things are hygroscopic, it means nothing. Just because something is hygroscopic does not mean it will absorb something automatically.
right and like ethanol it will be some time before most accept it. just like the whole synthetic oil argument, took time to get everyone on board.
Not really off topic as the roman catholic church as of not long ago finally admitted the earth was not flat. In general the church has/had a history of ignoring scientific fact when relating to simple things.
No they have not been playing around with ethanol mass production for hundreds of years. will take a while for things to get sorted. I was just at a huge meeting with multiple companies talking about figuring ways to mass produce more effectively than currently.
deposits can not be treated OTC in the same manor that ethanol does.
I am in the oil and fuel analysis business. I see race cars, make determinations, send companies/teams back to the drawing boards. I get calls from OE's with problems and needing solutions. I get e-mail from technicians that are stumped and have no idea what's happening to that corolla engine with no CEL. I see the end results, ethanol is good on engines. I don't care about opinions, I call it as I see it in the data.
one must still try to reduce emissions even in the face of others polluting. It's sad but boats and aircraft are the worst offenders.
A lot of things are hygroscopic, it means nothing. Just because something is hygroscopic does not mean it will absorb something automatically.
right and like ethanol it will be some time before most accept it. just like the whole synthetic oil argument, took time to get everyone on board.
Not really off topic as the roman catholic church as of not long ago finally admitted the earth was not flat. In general the church has/had a history of ignoring scientific fact when relating to simple things.
No they have not been playing around with ethanol mass production for hundreds of years. will take a while for things to get sorted. I was just at a huge meeting with multiple companies talking about figuring ways to mass produce more effectively than currently.
deposits can not be treated OTC in the same manor that ethanol does.
I am in the oil and fuel analysis business. I see race cars, make determinations, send companies/teams back to the drawing boards. I get calls from OE's with problems and needing solutions. I get e-mail from technicians that are stumped and have no idea what's happening to that corolla engine with no CEL. I see the end results, ethanol is good on engines. I don't care about opinions, I call it as I see it in the data.
one must still try to reduce emissions even in the face of others polluting. It's sad but boats and aircraft are the worst offenders.
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 241
Likes: 32
From: LA
danielTRLK you are still wrong. I buy premium ethanol gas for my 911 just a few blocks from my house. It is a privately owned CITGO station. It buys its ethanol gas directly from a local refinery. I've talked to the owner. This has been going on for at least 8 years I know of, and if illegal it would have been addressed by our super efficient Federal Government. Up until 3 years ago all the gas I purchased locally was ethanol free because I purchased it on Barksdale Air Force Base at the Base Exchange service station. The supplier for the Base is the Shell Oil distributor. They no longer sell uncontaminated (ethanol free) gas at the Base. The manager of the exchange personally told me it was not because it was not available but because of Air Force/DOD policy.
And as others have pointed out, you still refuse to tell us who you are or the business you are in.
The chemistry is that there is less energy in alcohol on a volume to volume basis. Yes, an engine designed to use 100% ethanol can be designed and built and such has been done in auto racing for years, and I used a mixture of 100% ethanol and synthetic "oil" all the way back in the 50's but only after reworking the carbuurator to achieve much higher flow rates. What ethanol will do is raise the octane rating of petroleum based gasoline. As to your claim it "cleans" the engine please provide a reference. Preferably a reference other than someone from the Global Warming lobbying group.
And as others have pointed out, you still refuse to tell us who you are or the business you are in.
The chemistry is that there is less energy in alcohol on a volume to volume basis. Yes, an engine designed to use 100% ethanol can be designed and built and such has been done in auto racing for years, and I used a mixture of 100% ethanol and synthetic "oil" all the way back in the 50's but only after reworking the carbuurator to achieve much higher flow rates. What ethanol will do is raise the octane rating of petroleum based gasoline. As to your claim it "cleans" the engine please provide a reference. Preferably a reference other than someone from the Global Warming lobbying group.
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 241
Likes: 32
From: LA
A couple of references if anyone is interested in reading for themselves.
http://coolridesonline.net/news-blog...nes-againstit/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/william.../#17d156797c19
http://e360.yale.edu/features/the_ca...or_environment
http://www.autotraining.edu/blog/cou...silent-killer/
http://coolridesonline.net/news-blog...nes-againstit/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/william.../#17d156797c19
http://e360.yale.edu/features/the_ca...or_environment
http://www.autotraining.edu/blog/cou...silent-killer/
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 435
Likes: 122
From: NY
danielTRLK you are still wrong. I buy premium ethanol gas for my 911 just a few blocks from my house. It is a privately owned CITGO station. It buys its ethanol gas directly from a local refinery. I've talked to the owner. This has been going on for at least 8 years I know of, and if illegal it would have been addressed by our super efficient Federal Government. Up until 3 years ago all the gas I purchased locally was ethanol free because I purchased it on Barksdale Air Force Base at the Base Exchange service station. The supplier for the Base is the Shell Oil distributor. They no longer sell uncontaminated (ethanol free) gas at the Base. The manager of the exchange personally told me it was not because it was not available but because of Air Force/DOD policy.
And as others have pointed out, you still refuse to tell us who you are or the business you are in.
The chemistry is that there is less energy in alcohol on a volume to volume basis. Yes, an engine designed to use 100% ethanol can be designed and built and such has been done in auto racing for years, and I used a mixture of 100% ethanol and synthetic "oil" all the way back in the 50's but only after reworking the carbuurator to achieve much higher flow rates. What ethanol will do is raise the octane rating of petroleum based gasoline. As to your claim it "cleans" the engine please provide a reference. Preferably a reference other than someone from the Global Warming lobbying group.
And as others have pointed out, you still refuse to tell us who you are or the business you are in.
The chemistry is that there is less energy in alcohol on a volume to volume basis. Yes, an engine designed to use 100% ethanol can be designed and built and such has been done in auto racing for years, and I used a mixture of 100% ethanol and synthetic "oil" all the way back in the 50's but only after reworking the carbuurator to achieve much higher flow rates. What ethanol will do is raise the octane rating of petroleum based gasoline. As to your claim it "cleans" the engine please provide a reference. Preferably a reference other than someone from the Global Warming lobbying group.
I've already told you guys, I'm in the fuel and oil analysis business. My accounts consist of USN, USDA, USEPA, USDOT to name a few.
I'm not going to start pulling up sample reports just to prove a point to a few guys I don't know that would get me fired either way.
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 435
Likes: 122
From: NY
Redhorse, I'm talking about big fuel, not your little gas station. To better answer your question, through seeing plenty of engines making the switches during the analysis that followed, we saw many deposits get cleaned up and such. So there is data validating the claim, I certainly am not a farmer nor do I grow corn.
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 241
Likes: 32
From: LA
And the people at the stations where I've bought ethanol free gasoline might find offense with your "little gas station" comment. There are two stations in the Baton Rouge area across the street from each other, and each "little gas station" has at least 10 pumps.
I've been through this discussion on Rennlist. The poster there finally gave up and did some research and had the integrity to post that he was in fact incorrect.