Do you know what the Renewable Fuel Standard laws are? They either buy 10% ethanol or they buy credits.

Right because your neighborhood gas station is now a multibillion dollar oil corporation.

Like I said your examples are void, RFS mandates 10% ethanol or if you get in the technical aspect purchases of credits but as many have said, even without RFS in place, big fuel has learned to use ethanol to it's advantage, don't expect with even a repeal of RFS for ethanol to go away. It's here to stay, my last response on this board.

For the rest here, I test engines from Toyota to Ford and many more, as well as fuel for many government agencies, federal and state. My knowledge is based on facts and data, not an opinion about how I woke up and felt that day. Ethanol is a great fuel, it's why so many switch and why it will become more abundant over time.

 

 

For the record...there are NUMEROUS ethanol-free gas stations here in Tennessee.

 

you guys make me laugh, the mandate as I mentioned 4 times already is not on gas stations. It is on the fuel makers.

 

gas is different dependant on state/elevations. i have had success with 85 octane as well as 95....think the computers in our cars help alot. e85 gas had alot of water rust out exhaust...dont know why.

 

your fuel does not make a difference at elevation, not at the differences in elevation you're referring to.

Ethanol does not have all this water you guys keep mentioning. Now if the jobber contaminates through improper transportation, that is on the jobber. In the past there were huge issues with the jobbers. I test for Texas DOA, Illinois DOA, Cali DOA and NJ DOA as well as the Navy's fuels. We don't see issues with ethanol.

 

Please tell us, the great uninformed, where exactly gas stations get their gasoline if they don't get it from the "fuel makers?"

If the fuel makers were required to include 10% ethanol in all gasoline then I guess the many gas stations selling ethanol free gas are distilling out back?

And I thought you promised us you weren't going to post here anymore. A self proving lie.

 

Redhorse, you remind me of Bill Clinton.

I have been asked by another member in a PM what you guys were referring to, so now I have to correct you bombarding guys.

The makers of the fuels have two options by law, either purchase 10% ethanol or purchase the damn credits to avoid it. In some areas, the 10% is easier to purchase because as a result you can blend even lower than normal octane and still achieve the intended octane because ethanol's octane rating is so high. Most gas station in the US serve gasahol. Very Very few serve gasoline. For racing and other applications, they are given exemptions.

 

danielTRLK we are all sure glad you stopped by to educate us poor unwashed masses, many of whom, like I, buy ethanol free gasoline from the stations that have no connection with racing or are near any marinas.

Now, tell us about how the LX 570 which you own operates? Are you happy with it? Do you intend to replace it? How many miles on it? Had any problems with it. I get about 3-4 mpg more in mine using ethanol free gasoline. How about you?

And while you are educating us you can explain to us why I don't get higher mileage in my 2015 S8 when using ethanol free gasoline.

 

Shell V-Power sold in Canada has no ethanol in it. Wonder why Shell does not put it in their best fuel if it's so good?

http://www.shell.ca/en_ca/motorists/...plus-faqs.html

 

I don't know anything about Canadian fuels, sorry. Other than it can be expensive to get ethanol up north, they could also have pour point issues. Flex fuel usually goes down to 51% in the northern states during winter. So likely weather related if I had to take a guess.

 

2014, yes I love it, 38,000 miles. Hopefully much more reliable than my jeep I had. No replacement, will attempt to put as many miles until repairs become out of hand. I blend out E15 on this LX. Yes, you will lose fuel economy using ethanol as it contains less energy. I've never tracked the fuel economy extensively, but I haven't seen that much of a drop with E15, about 1-2mpg. Trade offs.

On your S8, it's likely due to the forced induction design of that engine. You have to remember on average, E10 negatively affects fuel economy by around 3%. Other things, such as the engine running cooler and increasing ring seal, especially being turbocharged could lead to the gasahol performing better in your engine. Ethanol shines big time on forced induction engines, it's why most of the GT-R's, Evo's and Subaru's I've tested run on ethanol, helps with the ring seal and engine's efficiency. On a twin turbo 4L engine, how much does 3% fuel economy really come out to? If you get 20mpg average, that's 0.6 change in fuel economy. Other things to factor as well, what kind of oil are you using in your LX and your S8.

 

The way it works in Canada is you have to have a certain average (I believe 5%) ethanol content in all the fuel you sell. So Shell mixes 15%-10% ethanol in their lower grade fuels (87 and 89) which allows V-Power to be ethanol free while still meeting average ethanol fuel requirements. Clearly they prefer not to add it if they don't have to.

 

making a blanket statement like that when you don't work in the fuel's business is of little to value. Again ethanol affects pour and cloud points, why they don't put it in the V-power could be do to other reasons. They might want drivers to notice that V-power is better than BP fuel since it's not ethanol blended, it could be a marketing tactic, I really don't know. But to say it's because ethanol is a useless garbage fuel, is quite frankly wrong. It could, also be due to the refining process and they may have a very good fuel to begin with, I'm not sure, it would take some research on my end and likely involve a call to my business contact at Shell. There is a reason at the STLE's Annual meeting, with BP, Exxon, Shell, Chevron, Conoco, and plenty more, the main talks were how do we get more power and efficiency from ethanol. It's pretty much main stream in most modified cars, as most quickly see the benefit to it and very little downside to it.

Ethanol is not an end all answer to the fuels problems in NA. it is a great alternative and booster when used well. Through many many oil analysis samples, we've see the use of ethanol help the oil remain stable, and clean deposits and boost ring seal in engines, big and small, turbo or no turbo. I'm a fan of ethanol to a degree, I like to speak to the data I see and have the privledge to study.

 

Regarding the original question, I've checked the fuel mileage (the old-fashioned way, miles divided by gallons consumed) on perhaps 50-60 tank-fulls of premium vs. regular in my GX 470 and LX 570. With my vehicles and my driving styles, there is NO difference in fuel mileage (and none should be expected, IMO). I also don't notice any difference in the way either vehicle runs or performs on regular vs. premium. I've burned only regular (Top Tier brands) in the GX for the past 70K miles and in the LX for the past 24K, and both engines run as well as they ever did. IMO, the use of premium fuel for MOST people/vehicles is much like the 3,000 mile oil change; largely a marketing shenanigan.