LS - 4th Gen (2007-2017) Discussion topics related to the current flagship models LS460, LS460L and LS600H

LS460 Control Arm...OMG!!!

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Old 02-16-19, 08:25 AM
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Tlutrick
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Default LS460 Control Arm...OMG!!!

So if you've read any of my preivous threads, I've been chasing a vibration. Balanced Tires, then Road Forced Balanced Tires, Replaced brakes, turned rotors, replaced Bearing Hubs, all with no success. Take it in to Lexus dealer, and despite me telling tech that a Road Force Balance had already been done, they had to do it themselves. Did it charged me $77, and agreed that it wasn't a Tire or Balance issue...No **** Sherlock! Instead they tell me that they "think", but don't know for sure, that it's the control arms. Quoted me $4610.00 to replace the 6 front control arms. Uhhhhh, NO! When I can buy the parts for less than $600 ($300 economy version) on Rockauto.

So I'm reading the Workshop Manuals at https://workshop-manuals.com/lexus/l...arm/page_9201/

Would love a YouTube video, or some other video to help me get my bearing and make sure I don't screw something up. Any links/recommendations out there to illustrate the work?

Also, I think the economy bushings are rubber and the daily driver are polyurethane, I think... I've read that some think the rubber is a softer feel, but poly holds up longer. Comments here are appreciated.
Old 02-16-19, 10:02 AM
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ChongBob
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I’m in the same boat right now. I ended up purchasing parts from Moog and Fig Engineering for $1,000 for all eight control arms. I’m currently looking for someone to put them in. I have gotten an estimate of $1,400 to put all eight in but I think that guy is trying to rip me off. It would still be $2,200 less than the dealership quote you got.
Old 02-16-19, 01:41 PM
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213374U
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$1400?!?! Jeez, I'll do it for half that if you're around the Austin area. Just swapped my uppers yesterday in about 45 minutes per side and most of that is getting stuff out of the way, doing the lowers at the same time wouldn't take much longer.

If you're at all mechanically competent the job isn't hard. To do all 8 arms you only actually need to remove/loosen ~24 bolts/nuts per side (including wheel lugs) and separate a few ball joints. When putting it back together make sure that the arms are in a position as though the car was sitting on the ground before tightening down the control arms in their mounts and all should be good. I'm fairly certain those that complain about control arms failing with 6 months missed that last step, meaning their control arm bushings were under tension at all times instead of just under suspension articulation, drastically reducing their lifespan.
Old 02-16-19, 01:51 PM
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Yeah, the dealer that quoted me was in SouthLake and I think that they think everyone there is loaded. Wish I was closer to Austin, but I'm in Monroe, LA, so I'm going to call around and see if someone can do it for me for a manageable price, otherwise, I'm going to take a swing at it...

I found this thread on the site...https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...res-etc-3.html

Looks manageable.
Old 02-16-19, 02:04 PM
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ChongBob
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Originally Posted by 213374U
$1400?!?! Jeez, I'll do it for half that if you're around the Austin area. Just swapped my uppers yesterday in about 45 minutes per side and most of that is getting stuff out of the way, doing the lowers at the same time wouldn't take much longer.

If you're at all mechanically competent the job isn't hard. To do all 8 arms you only actually need to remove/loosen ~24 bolts/nuts per side (including wheel lugs) and separate a few ball joints. When putting it back together make sure that the arms are in a position as though the car was sitting on the ground before tightening down the control arms in their mounts and all should be good. I'm fairly certain those that complain about control arms failing with 6 months missed that last step, meaning their control arm bushings were under tension at all times instead of just under suspension articulation, drastically reducing their lifespan.

I’m actually in Arlington, TX, not too far from you! I’ll definitely consider it if my other plans don’t work out. I’ve been getting stone walled because other mechanics around here are not willing to put in parts I bring in. What do you think about changing transmission fluid? I checked the service records and it hasn’t been done and my LS has 96,000 miles. I’m thinking of getting like 4 quarts drained and replaced. Think it’s safe at this point?
Old 02-16-19, 02:57 PM
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This is the email received from A1 auto care in Arlington:

Thank you for your prompt reply. Here is the breakdown.

1) For R&R all eight control arms, the labor is $1,410.00. This is with labor consolidation! It is a lot of work that would take us the better part of three days to complete.

2) Four wheel alignment = $85.00/per axle x 2= $170.00.

3) Full synthetic oil change is $93.00.

4) As for the transmission and differential services. I would not recommend conducting these repairs if you are uncertain of when they were previously done. I have seen transmissions and differentials give out right after doing these service. For reference, the transmission service on this vehicle is around $400.00. Differential service is not something I can do here. But doing these, I feel, are risky moves.

I hope this helps in your pursuit of quality vehicle repairs.

Craig
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Old 02-16-19, 03:03 PM
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Tlutrick
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I would find someone else to do the work. Everyone is saying this is a 4-5hr job, so even if they are slow or take their time and spend 8 hrs, then $176hr is really steep.
Old 02-16-19, 03:10 PM
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I think so too. I’m waiting on a quote from TLS down the street. I hear they are good mechanics.
Old 02-17-19, 03:33 AM
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Based on that email, I wouldn't bring a walk-behind lawnmower to these people.

Changing the diff/pumpkin oil takes two wrenches, at most, and some new oil. It could not be easier.
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Old 02-17-19, 10:00 AM
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Yeah, would stay far away from those guys. If they can't do a simple drain and fill on trans and differential I wouldn't want them touching anything.

The trans issues he's talking about usually come on after a "transmission flush". NEVER do a flush. Drain and fill is fine at any mileage and should be done every 90K or so if not sooner.

If I did the arms you'd have to get it aligned afterward. I don't have those tools/skills but could get you close enough to make it to an alignment rack without eating tires.
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Old 02-18-19, 12:39 PM
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Well, I reached out to a local mechanic here to get a quote for him to install my control arms. He would not install my parts, as he only installs Lexus OEM parts. Hmmm? Well, that's $1600 for the parts from Lexus + approximately 8hrs labor. I didn't even ask for his labor rate, as that parts cost conversation was a non-starter. I don't have a lift, so was agonizing over 8 hours on my knees, but I'll do it to save $1000 on just the parts. There went my Saturday!
Old 02-18-19, 12:44 PM
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It won't take you 8 hours, I promise, and a turned over 5-gal bucket will put you at perfect height to do this work. ~50 nuts/bolts total and the time to get stuff out of your way is all there is to it. Just make sure you take the time to preload the bushings before you set it back down and all should be well.
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Old 02-18-19, 10:28 PM
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This is the write up that the guy at A-1 gave me to justify the $1,400 estimate.
Old 02-19-19, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ChongBob
This is the email received from A1 auto care in Arlington:

Thank you for your prompt reply. Here is the breakdown.

1) For R&R all eight control arms, the labor is $1,410.00. This is with labor consolidation! It is a lot of work that would take us the better part of three days to complete.

2) Four wheel alignment = $85.00/per axle x 2= $170.00.

3) Full synthetic oil change is $93.00.

4) As for the transmission and differential services. I would not recommend conducting these repairs if you are uncertain of when they were previously done. I have seen transmissions and differentials give out right after doing these service. For reference, the transmission service on this vehicle is around $400.00. Differential service is not something I can do here. But doing these, I feel, are risky moves.

I hope this helps in your pursuit of quality vehicle repairs.

Craig
A1 Committed Autocare

Whoever this A1 auto is, they have never worked on an LS460 and have no idea what they're talking about, and that's fine, it's understandable, you can't expect them to have worked on every car on the road. But this is exactly why it's important to find an honest independent who has worked on these cars, because anyone who has done control arms on these cars can do this job in 2-3 hours, easy. And I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of certified Lexus techs that can do this job in under two hours. There really is nothing difficult about this job, it's suspension work. Nothing more, nothing less. If anything it's easier than some suspension work I've seen. Try doing lower control arms on a Toyota Highlander, I'll take the LS460 over that any day. Or try doing control arms on any rusted ten year old truck...you'll be using a torch and sawsall to get everything out...and you won't be able to charge the customer extra for it.

The problem with the 460 is there's not a lot of them out there. Mechanics aren't working on them on a regular basis. And when a $80,000 luxury car rollls into the service bay, no one is going to hesitate to charge maximum labor and price because they worry about what they're getting into. Lots of independent mechanics have been burned with luxury brands like BMW and Mercedes. Hell, I know some places that won't even touch a BMW, Mercedes or Audi. Sounds like some are scared if the LS460 now.
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Old 02-19-19, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ChongBob
This is the write up that the guy at A-1 gave me to justify the $1,400 estimate.
That's from "the book", and mechanics use it to overcharge people all the time. But, this is also how mechanics and shops remain profitable: they find good techs who can do quality work quickly, then an 8-hour job from the book can get done in 2, meaning they get to pocket 6 hours worth of labor cost that wasn't used.

This is why people recommend you to hunt for a reputable, trustworthy independent mechanic who isn't looking to get rich and will bill you for the work performed, not what a book says the work will take.
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