Front control arm bushings FAIL AGAIN
Driver School Candidate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 27
Likes: 10
From: Illinois
To the original poster - When you installed the arms/bushings, did you ensure that the actual inner part of the bushing was in a "nuetral" position before tightening down the bolt? If you tightened them down with the suspension in the full downward position the bushing will be WAY pre-loaded when the car is at ride height. Obviously that will shorten the lifespan dramatically. I personally pressed in just the bushings (ebay specials) and with 25K plus miles on them look brand new still ( inspect when rotating tires).
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,371
Likes: 526
From: BC Canada
To the original poster - When you installed the arms/bushings, did you ensure that the actual inner part of the bushing was in a "nuetral" position before tightening down the bolt? If you tightened them down with the suspension in the full downward position the bushing will be WAY pre-loaded when the car is at ride height. Obviously that will shorten the lifespan dramatically. I personally pressed in just the bushings (ebay specials) and with 25K plus miles on them look brand new still ( inspect when rotating tires).
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 26
Likes: 5
From: CA
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,415
Likes: 217
From: Ontario
To the original poster - When you installed the arms/bushings, did you ensure that the actual inner part of the bushing was in a "nuetral" position before tightening down the bolt? If you tightened them down with the suspension in the full downward position the bushing will be WAY pre-loaded when the car is at ride height. Obviously that will shorten the lifespan dramatically. I personally pressed in just the bushings (ebay specials) and with 25K plus miles on them look brand new still ( inspect when rotating tires).
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
Also dont understand what you mean by full downward position.
Ive read before about the car not being on the lift or something like that
any difference if the car is in sport/comfort/normal? Height high or normal?
Any instructions I can pass on would be great. Thanks
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 946
Likes: 139
From: TX
If the vehicle is on jack stands, the tires/suspension at all 4 corners will sag, leaving massive wheel gap. The suspension at this point is "unloaded". When you install new suspension components you don't want to torque them down in the mounts until you "pre-load" the suspension by raising the hub at that corner to near normal ride height. If you torque down the bushings in the mounts while the suspension is unloaded they will forever be under tension at stock ride height, and will tighten further whenever you hit bumps and the suspension goes lower. Basically, they're under pressure at all times, not just when the suspension is working, so this dramatically shortens life expectancy.
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,415
Likes: 217
From: Ontario
Great thanks for the explanation. I understand the general concept now.. but how would it work exactly in reality if the car is on the lift?
1. So how do we raise the hub? I assuming wheels will be off at this point or on?
2. How do we determine how high to raise it? So I guess I will set ride height to normal and suspension to normal before any measurement takes place ?
THANKS !
1. So how do we raise the hub? I assuming wheels will be off at this point or on?
2. How do we determine how high to raise it? So I guess I will set ride height to normal and suspension to normal before any measurement takes place ?
THANKS !
If the vehicle is on jack stands, the tires/suspension at all 4 corners will sag, leaving massive wheel gap. The suspension at this point is "unloaded". When you install new suspension components you don't want to torque them down in the mounts until you "pre-load" the suspension by raising the hub at that corner to near normal ride height. If you torque down the bushings in the mounts while the suspension is unloaded they will forever be under tension at stock ride height, and will tighten further whenever you hit bumps and the suspension goes lower. Basically, they're under pressure at all times, not just when the suspension is working, so this dramatically shortens life expectancy.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
From: NY
Last edited by Legus; Nov 30, 2018 at 11:40 AM.
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Driver School Candidate
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 26
Likes: 5
From: CA
Update: So I got the car on friday, but was super busy to update you guys until now. After a couple of days, I could hear the squeaking from the poly bushings(it doesn't really bother me since I have music on anyway).
Ride quality? Slight improvement IMO. Although, it does take small pot holes really well now. Because before I would feel every little thing and it would drive me nuts. Now, it's like it absorbs the potholes. My wife says the "clunking" noise is gone as well, so that's a plus.
Ride quality? Slight improvement IMO. Although, it does take small pot holes really well now. Because before I would feel every little thing and it would drive me nuts. Now, it's like it absorbs the potholes. My wife says the "clunking" noise is gone as well, so that's a plus.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
From: NY
To the original poster - When you installed the arms/bushings, did you ensure that the actual inner part of the bushing was in a "nuetral" position before tightening down the bolt? If you tightened them down with the suspension in the full downward position the bushing will be WAY pre-loaded when the car is at ride height. Obviously that will shorten the lifespan dramatically. I personally pressed in just the bushings (ebay specials) and with 25K plus miles on them look brand new still ( inspect when rotating tires).
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
I'm sorry to hear yours have failed so soon. Maybe I got lucky with good rubber on mine or a combination that I drive the car fairly easy and our roads are decent around here.
hey there
not sure how I overlooked this post
i cant be too sure... my best friend has been a mechanic for over 7 years now, I can I assume that any experienced mechanic knows to do this? I’ll ask him but I wouldn’t want to insult the mans work. I did watch him do the arms...so what do you mean by neutral position and downward position? He did all of it while it was up on a lift as far as I remember
hey there
not sure how I overlooked this post
i cant be too sure... my best friend has been a mechanic for over 7 years now, I can I assume that any experienced mechanic knows to do this? I’ll ask him but I wouldn’t want to insult the mans work. I did watch him do the arms...so what do you mean by neutral position and downward position? He did all of it while it was up on a lift as far as I remember
hey there
not sure how I overlooked this post
i cant be too sure... my best friend has been a mechanic for over 7 years now, I can I assume that any experienced mechanic knows to do this? I’ll ask him but I wouldn’t want to insult the mans work. I did watch him do the arms...so what do you mean by neutral position and downward position? He did all of it while it was up on a lift as far as I remember
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
From: NY
I’m sure this sounds really stupid so forgive me but How does one torque the bolts down if the car isn’t suspended?
All you have to do is use a jack to push the tire up or lower the car with some kind of stand underneath the rotor until it is fully compressed and the tighten the bolts. I did this job on the ground with my car up on jack stands, then I used my jack to lift my rotor before I torqued the bolts.
sorry for the delay guys, my mechanic took quite a while to get the car back to me
The Good : the bushings were installed and the car is riding a lot better now, I don't notice any drawbacks of using the urethanes so far but to be fair ive only driven it back from the shop and cruised around in the city a bit before parking it again, but I noticed NO negative drawbacks at all
Ride quality is good, no noises , it is not too stiff or harsh like some might be concerned about
Also my mechanic did a closer inspection and only my lower rears needed to be swapped , both on each side. (there are two bushings on the front rear lower arm) and the rest of my bushings top and bottom are fine so they have been left alone.
The Bad: he charged me $300 per side to remove the arms, remove the old bushings, press in new ones and re-install the arms. $600 total
He said it would be cheaper to just swap in the arms but I really wanted peace of mind to have top quality parts put in so I guess that's how it goes.
I am in for $800.00 now just to have my front rear lowers repaired. (not a victory on my end)
The Good : the bushings were installed and the car is riding a lot better now, I don't notice any drawbacks of using the urethanes so far but to be fair ive only driven it back from the shop and cruised around in the city a bit before parking it again, but I noticed NO negative drawbacks at all
Ride quality is good, no noises , it is not too stiff or harsh like some might be concerned about
Also my mechanic did a closer inspection and only my lower rears needed to be swapped , both on each side. (there are two bushings on the front rear lower arm) and the rest of my bushings top and bottom are fine so they have been left alone.
The Bad: he charged me $300 per side to remove the arms, remove the old bushings, press in new ones and re-install the arms. $600 total
He said it would be cheaper to just swap in the arms but I really wanted peace of mind to have top quality parts put in so I guess that's how it goes.
I am in for $800.00 now just to have my front rear lowers repaired. (not a victory on my end)
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 946
Likes: 139
From: TX
Will be tackling bushings after the first of the year when I park the 460 and start daily driving the 400. Looking forward to getting the suspension back to factory tight.
Did you post links/part #s for the bushings you used and I missed it? If not, could you? I'm also curious which bushings are the same between the RWD and AWD models, guess I'll need to grab some tech sheets and start referencing part #s between them.
Did you post links/part #s for the bushings you used and I missed it? If not, could you? I'm also curious which bushings are the same between the RWD and AWD models, guess I'll need to grab some tech sheets and start referencing part #s between them.