Question re Mark Levenson Audio performance
03-20-18, 11:42 AM
#1
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Question re Mark Levenson Audio performance
Hello listers. I'm a new member here, having recently bought a new-to-me 2005 LS430 with Mark Levinson/Nav system. I have a question that I couldn't find answered in this forum.
If I leave the audio fader control in the middle position, it sounds as if most of the sound comes from the front speakers. To get it to sound balanced I have to move the fader control to the last bar before the rear-most position.
If I move the control all the way to the back, the rear speakers sound ok. If I move the control right and left, the sound moves accordingly, so I know all the speakers are actually working.
But is the strong bias toward the front speakers normal?
Thanks, Gary
If I leave the audio fader control in the middle position, it sounds as if most of the sound comes from the front speakers. To get it to sound balanced I have to move the fader control to the last bar before the rear-most position.
If I move the control all the way to the back, the rear speakers sound ok. If I move the control right and left, the sound moves accordingly, so I know all the speakers are actually working.
But is the strong bias toward the front speakers normal?
Thanks, Gary
03-20-18, 01:38 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Hello listers. I'm a new member here, having recently bought a new-to-me 2005 LS430 with Mark Levinson/Nav system. I have a question that I couldn't find answered in this forum.
If I leave the audio fader control in the middle position, it sounds as if most of the sound comes from the front speakers. To get it to sound balanced I have to move the fader control to the last bar before the rear-most position.
If I move the control all the way to the back, the rear speakers sound ok. If I move the control right and left, the sound moves accordingly, so I know all the speakers are actually working.
But is the strong bias toward the front speakers normal?
Thanks, Gary
If I leave the audio fader control in the middle position, it sounds as if most of the sound comes from the front speakers. To get it to sound balanced I have to move the fader control to the last bar before the rear-most position.
If I move the control all the way to the back, the rear speakers sound ok. If I move the control right and left, the sound moves accordingly, so I know all the speakers are actually working.
But is the strong bias toward the front speakers normal?
Thanks, Gary
03-20-18, 04:23 PM
#3
My suspicion is that your subwoofer needs repair or replacement. A common issue. Search the forum and you will see many threads. Options range from refoaming it yourself using an inexpensive kit for about $15 to OEM replacement at $350 or so. In between are after market replacements for around $50 to $75 or having rebuilt for about $75 plus shipping.
03-20-18, 04:28 PM
#4
Moderator
Given the age of all LS430s at this point if one or more of the speakers sound too low at a given volume or balance setting, it is likely that the foam surrounds on the speakers have disintegrated. When the foam surround deteriorates and comes apart, the speaker may start buzzing or rattling but it can also just lose most of its volume with no buzzing. Only way to know for sure is to pull the door panels and check your speakers. It is pretty easy to see when the surrounds have deteriorated and at this point many speakers will have issues given the poor quality material used for surrounds on LS430 ML speakers.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 03-20-18 at 04:31 PM.
03-20-18, 04:38 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
03-20-18, 07:04 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
Have you checked your dsp settings? They could be set up for the fronts.
Keep in mind that the rears are in the lower door panel, so it'll never sound the same as having teeterst reflecting off the windshield.
A properly set up audio system should be front heavy, meaning you should hear the music in front of you, not behind or around you. The rear speakers exist as filler, hence the name rear fill.
My 03 land cruiser does the same thing. The fronts are at least 50% louder than the rears. And no way to change that except for using the fade option.
Keep in mind that the rears are in the lower door panel, so it'll never sound the same as having teeterst reflecting off the windshield.
A properly set up audio system should be front heavy, meaning you should hear the music in front of you, not behind or around you. The rear speakers exist as filler, hence the name rear fill.
My 03 land cruiser does the same thing. The fronts are at least 50% louder than the rears. And no way to change that except for using the fade option.
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03-22-18, 02:28 PM
#8
Instructor
My 02 UL sounds perfectly centred and balanced when all of the balance and fade settings are dead centre (default middle positions). If you are sure all speakers are working (there are 9 speakers in the 2002 according to official specs - rear door speakers probably count as 2 each), maybe more in 2005) and all produce very clear audio, and since you are new to the LS430, perhaps you are expecting too much of a rear bias from your experience with other vehicles and sound systems?
To see if this is a problem with the amp and/or input sources, try using a commercially-manufactured (not self-burned) CD in the CD player and compare it to the FM radio, cassette adapter plugged to a known high-quality source, and an iPod and/or Bluetooth integration kit. If all sources seem equally biased to the rear yet the quality is perfectly fine, I would suspect that you aren't accustomed to the sound being centred.
From the driver seat, you aren't supposed to hear much of the rear door speakers, and the subwoofer should blend in to the music perfectly. If you close your eyes while listening to a high-quality source, it should sound like the music is inside your head and that centre stage is directly in front of you - you should not be able to easily pinpoint individual speakers. It will NOT sound like a regular home theatre surround sound where you can easily hear the rear speakers coming from behind you. The system was designed so that the audio is perfectly centred for the driver. I believe the 2007+ LS has customizable DSP settings so you can select your passenger count and/or seating.
The ML system is carefully calibrated on both the time-domain and the frequency-domain to provide superior acoustics inside the car based on cabin volume, reflectivity of the glass, headliner, seats, etc. Also an interesting note from the 2002 Canadian LS430 brochure: "To compensate for the fact that the driver sits closer to the left door speaker than the right one, an almost infinitesimal adjustment enables the Mark Levinson 24-bit floating point DSP processor to transmit signals so that both in-door speakers deliver sound to the driver’s ear at exactly the same time. Nobody can match this level of precision."
To see if this is a problem with the amp and/or input sources, try using a commercially-manufactured (not self-burned) CD in the CD player and compare it to the FM radio, cassette adapter plugged to a known high-quality source, and an iPod and/or Bluetooth integration kit. If all sources seem equally biased to the rear yet the quality is perfectly fine, I would suspect that you aren't accustomed to the sound being centred.
From the driver seat, you aren't supposed to hear much of the rear door speakers, and the subwoofer should blend in to the music perfectly. If you close your eyes while listening to a high-quality source, it should sound like the music is inside your head and that centre stage is directly in front of you - you should not be able to easily pinpoint individual speakers. It will NOT sound like a regular home theatre surround sound where you can easily hear the rear speakers coming from behind you. The system was designed so that the audio is perfectly centred for the driver. I believe the 2007+ LS has customizable DSP settings so you can select your passenger count and/or seating.
The ML system is carefully calibrated on both the time-domain and the frequency-domain to provide superior acoustics inside the car based on cabin volume, reflectivity of the glass, headliner, seats, etc. Also an interesting note from the 2002 Canadian LS430 brochure: "To compensate for the fact that the driver sits closer to the left door speaker than the right one, an almost infinitesimal adjustment enables the Mark Levinson 24-bit floating point DSP processor to transmit signals so that both in-door speakers deliver sound to the driver’s ear at exactly the same time. Nobody can match this level of precision."
03-22-18, 02:46 PM
#9
Driver School Candidate
I have an 05 with the Mark Levinson audio system, NAV and backup camera and it has some directional settings in the DSP options section of the audio adjustments you might want to take a look at. You can set it to various seat positions if I remember correctly so that it tailors the sound to that position of the car. I keep mine in the middle. Also it sounds better with the ASL setting on. The ASL seems to help with the tone quality in addition to the auto volume level adjustments due to road and wind noise. The CD player sounds better than any other audio source too.
03-22-18, 07:44 PM
#10
My 02 Ultra sounds fine. I just set the settings to my liking, and it works. The car has lived inside all of its life, and until two years ago, had covered parking at work. All that being said, the Levinson system, even when brand new, leaves much to be desired. Mark Levinson had nothing to do with the system, as he had already sold the company to Harmon Kardon, which included his name. If Mark Levinson had designed the system in the LS, it would be spectacular. He is a genius. The Nakamichi system in the LS400 was far superior.
If you do need a new sub woofer, get an additional amp and put a really nice sub woofer in there.
If you do need a new sub woofer, get an additional amp and put a really nice sub woofer in there.
03-27-18, 02:32 AM
#11
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Thank you all for the great ideas and suggestions; you've given me a lot to consider and investigate.
To rephrase my original question - I'm trying to determine if the current behavior is stock and as it should be, or if there is some deficiency. (I feel really lucky because this car was nearly flawless when I bought it and has a perfect Lexus-only maintenance history with no reported problems.)
My simple intuition, and experience with other cars, is that the fader should move most of the sound from front to back without a great deal of degradation. In my case, that is not what happens. The most powerful sound comes from the front and what is generated in back is significantly less.
If I bias toward either side or rear and turn up bass-heavy music, the speakers don't seem to break up as you'd expect if the components were bad.
These two comments made by helpful listers seem to contradict what is normal: "My 02 UL sounds perfectly centred and balanced when all of the balance and fade settings are dead centre (default middle positions)"
and "A properly set up audio system should be front heavy, meaning you should hear the music in front of you, not behind or around you."
I"m not an audio expert, but without knowing any better, I'd suspect the rear channels of the amp are under-performing. But maybe this is normal. I think I may have to go find other similar cars to sit in and compare before concluding there is anything wrong or not.
Again, thanks to all for your help.
Gary
To rephrase my original question - I'm trying to determine if the current behavior is stock and as it should be, or if there is some deficiency. (I feel really lucky because this car was nearly flawless when I bought it and has a perfect Lexus-only maintenance history with no reported problems.)
My simple intuition, and experience with other cars, is that the fader should move most of the sound from front to back without a great deal of degradation. In my case, that is not what happens. The most powerful sound comes from the front and what is generated in back is significantly less.
If I bias toward either side or rear and turn up bass-heavy music, the speakers don't seem to break up as you'd expect if the components were bad.
These two comments made by helpful listers seem to contradict what is normal: "My 02 UL sounds perfectly centred and balanced when all of the balance and fade settings are dead centre (default middle positions)"
and "A properly set up audio system should be front heavy, meaning you should hear the music in front of you, not behind or around you."
I"m not an audio expert, but without knowing any better, I'd suspect the rear channels of the amp are under-performing. But maybe this is normal. I think I may have to go find other similar cars to sit in and compare before concluding there is anything wrong or not.
Again, thanks to all for your help.
Gary
03-27-18, 03:19 PM
#12
Driver School Candidate
Thank you all for the great ideas and suggestions; you've given me a lot to consider and investigate.
To rephrase my original question - I'm trying to determine if the current behavior is stock and as it should be, or if there is some deficiency. (I feel really lucky because this car was nearly flawless when I bought it and has a perfect Lexus-only maintenance history with no reported problems.)
My simple intuition, and experience with other cars, is that the fader should move most of the sound from front to back without a great deal of degradation. In my case, that is not what happens. The most powerful sound comes from the front and what is generated in back is significantly less.
If I bias toward either side or rear and turn up bass-heavy music, the speakers don't seem to break up as you'd expect if the components were bad.
These two comments made by helpful listers seem to contradict what is normal: "My 02 UL sounds perfectly centred and balanced when all of the balance and fade settings are dead centre (default middle positions)"
and "A properly set up audio system should be front heavy, meaning you should hear the music in front of you, not behind or around you."
I"m not an audio expert, but without knowing any better, I'd suspect the rear channels of the amp are under-performing. But maybe this is normal. I think I may have to go find other similar cars to sit in and compare before concluding there is anything wrong or not.
Again, thanks to all for your help.
Gary
To rephrase my original question - I'm trying to determine if the current behavior is stock and as it should be, or if there is some deficiency. (I feel really lucky because this car was nearly flawless when I bought it and has a perfect Lexus-only maintenance history with no reported problems.)
My simple intuition, and experience with other cars, is that the fader should move most of the sound from front to back without a great deal of degradation. In my case, that is not what happens. The most powerful sound comes from the front and what is generated in back is significantly less.
If I bias toward either side or rear and turn up bass-heavy music, the speakers don't seem to break up as you'd expect if the components were bad.
These two comments made by helpful listers seem to contradict what is normal: "My 02 UL sounds perfectly centred and balanced when all of the balance and fade settings are dead centre (default middle positions)"
and "A properly set up audio system should be front heavy, meaning you should hear the music in front of you, not behind or around you."
I"m not an audio expert, but without knowing any better, I'd suspect the rear channels of the amp are under-performing. But maybe this is normal. I think I may have to go find other similar cars to sit in and compare before concluding there is anything wrong or not.
Again, thanks to all for your help.
Gary
Have you checked your DSP settings to make sure it's set to all speakers? not the front or drivers seat only?
03-29-18, 06:16 AM
#14
Moderator
My 2001 is non-nav and I keep the fader slightly biased toward the rear speakers as well. No DSP to monkey with and a perfectly working amp and rear sub. I think the perception of having the door speakers and the tweeters in the dash so close to our ears makes the audio presence stronger with the fader in a neutral position. OP hasn't stated if his car has DSP adjustment or not, however...
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03-29-18, 02:41 PM
#15
My 2001 is non-nav and I keep the fader slightly biased toward the rear speakers as well. No DSP to monkey with and a perfectly working amp and rear sub. I think the perception of having the door speakers and the tweeters in the dash so close to our ears makes the audio presence stronger with the fader in a neutral position. OP hasn't stated if his car has DSP adjustment or not, however...
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