airchomper

Here's my Used Oil Analysis (UOA) and some commentary -



The last sample (6000 miles on oil) was Toyota Genuine Motor Oil - I selected it because it's so thin at 0 degrees f and I liked the additive package. The fuel content was high - I'd have to idle for ~8 minutes at (poorly timed) stoplights after leaving work before I could get on the freeway. Now, I have the opposite, I'm on the freeway about 1-3 minutes after I turn on the car. My driving is very, very sedate - I probably go above 2k RPMs one or two times per month, I cruise at 55-60 mph, and don't really drive too much in the city or in stop-and-go. When I got the car, the mechanic who inspected it told me I'd need new brakes in 10k miles or so, and it's been nearly 40k miles and I still have plenty of wear material left (and the front disks haven't even lost 1/100th of an inch of thickness!).

My personal experience is that synthetics seem to make the engine slightly smoother at low throttle openings but I concede that opinion might not be congruent with objective facts, which are completely welcome! I don't think there's anything wrong with dino oil and I use dino oil in other applications. And I know that these intervals seem long (they are) but since I drive so easily and 90% of my trips are >20 miles, I figure that the oil is up to the job. Synthetic oils are one of the luxuries I afford myself, I don't think I can defend them on the basis of cost effectiveness, and I simply enjoy the peace of mind that comes with synthetic oils and UOAs.

This current sample came from Mobil 1 0w30 AFE. I'm agnostic about it (I don't really care for fuel economy formulations but I do like the added anti-wear / friction additives for winter) but it did a fine job. I have a K&N air filter that I haven't touched in 38k miles, and I use the oil filter that the dude man at the Lexus part counter hands me.

I was kinda surprised to see that the oil and aluminum were the same on the 10.3k mi run as the 6,000 mile run. Both of them got the brunt of winter (albeit different winters) and their fair share of arctic blasts so I was (irrationally) expecting worse results. But those are pretty typical results for any Toyota engine in good shape. Here's a link to a Tacoma UOA with the 4.0 V6 and 319k miles on the engine. They had the same amount of aluminum wear and significantly more chromium and iron wear - older engines wear out and it seems like toyota engines wear out more slowly than most.

In my sample, the molybdenum took a hit but that's probably because of the oil additives, same story with the last 5 elements. I'm pleased that the zinc is so low in this 0w30 AFE, I know that zinc isn't the best thing for catalytic converters and I'd like to avoid a P0420 code if possible.

Two samples aren't a trend but its always nice to see an engine blow past 100k miles with such strong performance.

Please, please, please don't turn this into a discussion about 'the best oil' or 'synthetic vs. dino' . I just wanted to share this report with people who might find it interesting, people who might want to learn more about what a used oil analysis is, or people who'd like to collect more data to inform their choice of oil / oil change interval.

Also, I might put my car up for sale. This isn't an ad, I'm not trying to sell my car right now, but this is an invitation to PM me if you'd like to hear about it before I list it. Mods - please let me know if you'd prefer that I delete this line.

Mobius1

I should get my oil tested after 7k as an antithesis to your sample. My daily work travel is less than 15 minutes, but i do like to WOT the pedal on mine regularly, once a day at least. In addition I did take two road trips that took 12 hours per drive (600 miles in a day). As well as another shorter 4 hour drive coming up tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing the report.

Jabberwock

Thanks for sharing the report and the info. Very interesting. Looks like your car's engine is in great shape.

danielTRLK

Wear in cars is not linear, looking at PPM per mile is a wrong way to think of it. Your fuel dilution is likely 3-4%, it is very high, and your letting a lot of crap in this engine. Replace that K&N air filter and get a WIX XP oil filter. M1 has done a good job of using viscosity improvers to withstand the FD but everything else is suffering. Your wrist pins are taking a beat down right now.

airchomper

It's not linear but PPM per mile isn't a bad metric (esp. when the PPMs were the same across two different intervals). My fuel dilution is in the sub-1% range. Why should I replace my K&N air filter when the silicon is 17 ppm on a 10k mi oci?

Why metrics indicate a WIX XP oil filter would be advantageous over an O.E.M Toyota filter?

If the wrist pins are taking a beating, why don't I see more wear particles?

danielTRLK

This is a bad way to look at wear and not a metric that works in automotive UOA. Doesn't matter if your PPMs were the same.

Proprietary data has proven to me repeatedly the XP out performs everyone. On this engine I believe it is a paper filter, so not as big of a difference, but still there's been a measurable difference.

Wrong, your fuel dilution is in the 4% range and is wearing components on this engine, including the wrist pins. Your water I'll venture is close to 1,000ppm.

Your insolubles are rising and this is likely attributed to the K&N filter, poor filtration, fuel dilution and the oil becoming an abrasive. Oiled filters are ok when changed every 10K, otherwise they begin to allow contaminants to be injested by the engine. You should be around 10ppm depending on where you live, different areas have different kinds of dirt and road grime.

Like most owners deceived by Blackstone, your unit has been diluting needlessly for a long time. Swap into a 0W20 M1EP or consider another blend if you can afford a few more $ for some better formulas.

Nickel in this engine is a valve guide alloy and a wrist pin. I would have to spend more time with your report. Molybdenum is a piston wring alloy normally well masked by M1's use of moly in the formula. It is tough to spot unless you know what you're looking for. So to answer your question, Iron and copper don't have to rise if they're not the components taking a hit.

airchomper

Do you have a financial interest in XP oil filters?

And help me figure this out - the UOA says that ~.5% of the sample was fuel. Why do you think fuel dilution is in the 4% range?

Besides, the nickel in this is 1 ppm and that's only 1 ppm higher than the nickel PPM another member got with a shorter UCI running amsoil (which is about as good as oil gets, right?).
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...l#&gid=1&pid=1

In fact, my insolubles are the same. My silicon/mi isn't all that different, and my aluminum and iron are basically double but on a per mile basis, it's probably not different (unless you want to argue about significant figures).

Now, you might say that wear per mile doesn't matter but why doesn't it? The only thing that matters is the total wear on the engine right - how much metal it's losing would be the KPI from a used oil analysis. If a person drives 12k miles, does 2 oil changes, and loses as much metal as I did in 12k, are they really in a better spot?

Thanks for your concern but I'm vindicated by this UOA. This engine will last until I decide to get rid of it, and judging by the posts I see on craigslist, this car will bounce around buy here pay here lots in bad parts of town until the timing belt snaps and then it'll be parted out.

danielTRLK

No, I have a financial interest in keeping my clients running as best as possible, lol.

Ok, well hopefully you're vindicated because I'm going to give you something that will make you question that vindication.

Just because Amsoil, which let me tell you, there are MANY different grades of, works on one engine, doesn't mean it will work in another. That customer you mentioned was using Amsoil XL, not SS. I wouldn't bother with XL.

Your insolubles can be measured by a few different measures, Blackstone's is ok but not the best, I'd venture to guess their data is off, again.

Wear per mile does not apply to automotive applications, why Blackstone really struggles. Your commute isn't the same every day, your weather changes day to day, humidity and air conditions, fuel used, driving style, and more. Wear is not linear and occurs in certain instances, not per mile. Comparing UOA is like in professional cycling, when amatuers try to copy what the pros are doing. Just because it's ok/works/good for a pro doesn't mean it applies to you. No point in comparing UOA as you need years of experience to correlate and even then, it is extremely difficult to do as everyone has different variables. In industrial applications this is ok, loads and all variables are constant and same.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rc-...tic-oil-9.html go to post #37, 130 and 134, read and learn. Twice I've had to interpret a Blackstone analysis for Lance. Post #137 had my response to another member who took down his UOA because Blackstone was so off(worse than usual), I think they asked him to lol.

Blackstone is considered the McDonalds of oil analysis. They have ZERO certifications, you never know what they're really doing. They don't care to because they know their customer base, will never ask questions because they don't know any better. I'm going to take a guess, UOA is not what you do for work. They have no experience in UOA and their commentaries are almost always wrong and far from the truth. With that being said, lets dive in your UOA

2001 LS430 running Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W30

Aluminum - Going to be the pistons on this engine. At 4ppm it's doing ok, but we can do better. This is evidenced by your silicon readings which in this engine are part of the piston alloy

Iron - This is going to be crankshafts and oil pump wear. You're engine has been diluting the oil and it's causing needless wear, loss of fuel economy and is causing some of the deposits in this engine to come out.

Molybdenum - this is part of Mobil 1's AFE formula's add pack. But this is also piston ring alloys. It's hard to tell without more data, and I'll get there in a second.

Nickel - this is your engine's valve guide alloys and wrist pins. This is not good to see it at 4, and down to 1. This engine is dumping fuel into the crankcase and as a result you're experiencing wear that normally wouldn't occur. This is really BAD to see in a seasoned engine. one PPM is bad, 4 is worse.

Silicon - your filter is on the dirty side, as a result your insolubles have risen to 0.2% and you're wearing other components in the engine as silicon is abrasive and sand blasts what it comes in contact with. On a 10,000 mile interval, you should have this engine at 10. Most vehicles can stay around 8-9. I don't know where you drive or when, but 10 is very reasonable. Change this air filter, no reason not to I believe it's a $10-13 filter at WalMart, you don't need anything fancy, just something cheap every 10k. This is what your engine is breathing to, at least allow it to breathe clean air if you're going to go to 10,000 miles.

Zinc/Phos - ZDTP in Mobil's formula, not ZDDP. We see a value for the elements, but we have no idea if this additive is sheered, depleted or active. You really need FTIR to determine the amount of active additive left in the oil.

Viscosity @100C - M1 is really good at fighting acid's and this is one oil that just doesn't sheer lol. Your oil has consistently been a 0W20. It has never been in grade, you'll be better off with a 0W20. This is the first evidence of the excessive fuel dilution, remember M1 is super hard to sheer.

Flashpoint should be well over 400 for this oil, it never has. As I said this is likely a 4% fuel dilution reading for M1 to flash at 360 & 375.

Fuel % - Blackstone uses an open cup flash point for this test. It is subjective and a calculation. It is not accurate for today's fuels. Today's fuels chemistries and oils are completely different than even a few years ago. This engine has consistently been much higher than they have always claimed.

Water % - impossible it is at 0% or 0PPM. This again is a guess from them and subjective. They're using a test called the crackle, I'm short on time lol

Insolubles - on an engine like this 0.2% is unacceptable, should easily be 0.1%. This engine could be running a LOT better.

You have no TBN or TAN. We have no idea how the base stock is doing, TBN is not additives as Blackstone would tell you, it is base stock and the abillity to neutralize acids. TAN is your acid number, again, you're left blind, this oil is likely acidic based on the other evidences.

FTIR - my favorite, you have no idea, how much active additive your oil has, how much soot/insolubles are in the engine, nitration and oxidation. Nitration allows me to determine how your spark plugs are doing, your combustion dynamic, timing belt, A/F ratio, and many other things. Blackstone has left you blind and is telling you all is well when it's not.

Gas Chromatography - This is the only way to accurately guage fuel's % today.

Karl Fischer - This allows me to see an exact water PPM in the engine, tells me combustion dynamic, fueling conditions, injector health, and many other things.

No viscosity Index.

Overall you would have done much better with a 0W20 M1EP, do you want an oil that stays in grade or do you want to have an oil that sheers to a 20?

This is a very basic interpretation free of charge. Ask any questions you have.

Johnhav430

What I'd be curious about, is how "accurate" are the oil life monitors on newer cars? In my personal observance on my wife's 2011, and 61k, is that when she worked only 2 miles from home, during the winter months, the OLM lit up as soon as 3700 miles. I remember her subjectively saying the car didn't have heat during the entire ride (which still kind of baffled me, until I tried it). The implication is this is a short ride and the coolant never reached operating temp.

Then, when the car was used to go to the in-laws every weekend 90 highway miles, and she stopped working (no more 2 mile commutes, and car used for normal errands), suddenly the OLM had me change it in 7,100. So it seems like whatever algorithm is used, it knows that the conditions were different.

With the Lexus blanketly having an oil change every 5k, and an idiot light that operates on that, what can we do....but I've decided I'm not changing it every 5k, for the heck of it and having no science to back me up, I'm going 6,500. Just stretching the interval by under 1/3. I use 5W30 synth and a Wix XP.

Johnhav430

p.s. I used K&N on my Maxima from 1998 to 2005 or so, I cringe at how much money I wasted on those clean and reoil kits. Dunno if it's still posted, but some guy bench tested various filters with was it 3 mil. test equipment that even K&N can't afford, and proved that OEM worked the best? But at the time, the Maxima forum claimed 2.5 HP gain just by dropping it in, so unfortunately I fell for it....I highly doubt there was any benefit at all except my motor got more dirt induced and was strangled (I base this on seeing the mpgs drop)...

danielTRLK

They're certainly getting "better" but they're based on algorithms with input from RPM's,etc. Problem is different environments, oils, filters, fuels, driving habits don't all mix in as you'd imagine.

Use a 0W20, it will perform a lot better, M1EP is very good, cheap off the shelf. The WIX XP filter is the filter to beat. Cheap cheap air filters every 10K.

Get a UOA at least once every 2 years to determine conditions. And not a Blackstone UOA

Yes those K&N are bad if not replaced every 10K, not to mention, the whole cleaning and reoiling is very bad. It's almost impossible to properly clean those, the particles we're talking about are very small. Then the oil can clog easily, just avoid them. Ironically the power they provide, is really nothing in the grand scheme of things. Will you really be able to feel 2HP?