Engine won't start
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Engine won't start
I just finished the installation of a used engine in my son's 2002 LS 430. The engine came out of a 2002. I replaced the water pump, timing belt and tensioner. When I removed the old belt and reinstalled the new one, I was meticulous. Nothing moved and all the marks lined up. Every thing went together perfectly. Now the engine won't start. I have verified spark to the plugs and the engine shows good compression. The throttle butterfly operates as it should. The engine turns over but will not fire, even using starting fluid. The only other (possible) mitigating factor is the ignition key fob broke. It still turns the engine over and I am still getting spark. Any help is appreciated!
Larry
Larry
Pole Position
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: NY
Hey get a new key fob if the chip is not touching the key it I'll not start the motor due to the anti theft system that is linked to the ecu the motor will turn over it will just not start up. If that dosnt work a motor needs 3 things spark, air, fuel, you verified it has the spark and air I would check the fuel injectors and lines etc to make sure it's not clogged with debris or a fuel line got pinched something along those lines let us know what you find out.
Last edited by Jks24; Oct 29, 2016 at 05:31 PM.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 227
Likes: 2
From: CA
Is your ECU programmed to your ignition module? If the injectors were clogged then it should have tried to start with the starting fluid or at least run roughly on the poor injectors. I suspect your ignition module wants nothing to do with the parts it doesn't recognise. Have you tried pulling codes? A Techstream unit ($40 Chinese knockoffs are on eBay) could give you more info too.
Pit Crew
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 203
Likes: 5
From: MN
a) Do you hear the fuel pump turning on?
b) There is a fuel pump relay in the underhood fusebox - did you test it? Try tapping it a couple of times and turning over the engine.
c) Have you connected a Techstream unit and pulled OBD codes? Or simply pulled ANY OBD codes?
d) While installing engine, did you make sure all grounds were correctly installed? I have not pulled an LS430 engine but there has to be multiple grounds on a car with this many electronic devices.
e) Do you have a second key or are you stuck with the one key that is broken?
It's kind of tough to help diagnose a non-start issue from the internet.
p.s: If you do find a solution, advise that you post back in thread with the resolution so others who may search can find the same. Thanks.
b) There is a fuel pump relay in the underhood fusebox - did you test it? Try tapping it a couple of times and turning over the engine.
c) Have you connected a Techstream unit and pulled OBD codes? Or simply pulled ANY OBD codes?
d) While installing engine, did you make sure all grounds were correctly installed? I have not pulled an LS430 engine but there has to be multiple grounds on a car with this many electronic devices.
e) Do you have a second key or are you stuck with the one key that is broken?
It's kind of tough to help diagnose a non-start issue from the internet.
p.s: If you do find a solution, advise that you post back in thread with the resolution so others who may search can find the same. Thanks.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Engine won't start
Thanks to all for the advice.
Thanks again for all the ideas
- I have eliminated the key as a possible problem.
- I didn't replace any computer components, only the engine, so nothing should need reprogramed.
- I check computer freeze frame data and DTC's when the engine failed, now the computer shows no data or DTC's. I am assuming this is because the battery was disconnected for an extended period of time.
- Fuel isn't the issue since it won't fire on starting fluid.
- All grounds were connected.
- I removed a valve cover and verified the valve timing.
Thanks again for all the ideas
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Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Engine won't start
I removed all of the spark plugs and, using the starter, rotated the engine. This was after I installed the new timing belt and related components and while the engine was still on the stand. Everything appeared to be operating properly.
My next step is to check the crank and cam sensors. To check these I need to know the input and output voltage range for each sensor. I have not been able to find this information. Does anyone know where I can obtain service manuals without spending a fortune. I prefer to have manuals in print. I have found some on CD on the secondhand market, but am skeptical of them being cheap/bad copies. Has anyone found any good, SAFE downloads of manuals? In the interest of time, I have resolved to subscribe to ALLDATA. Has anyone used ALLDATA before, and what was your impression?
My next step is to check the crank and cam sensors. To check these I need to know the input and output voltage range for each sensor. I have not been able to find this information. Does anyone know where I can obtain service manuals without spending a fortune. I prefer to have manuals in print. I have found some on CD on the secondhand market, but am skeptical of them being cheap/bad copies. Has anyone found any good, SAFE downloads of manuals? In the interest of time, I have resolved to subscribe to ALLDATA. Has anyone used ALLDATA before, and what was your impression?
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: wi
to properly and accurately check those sensors is a scope not a volt meter. it will also show you if your timing marks are correct because those sensors can't be on the same slop and you'd see on a scope. ALLDATA is good info. those sensors read in range of 0-5v reference and varies as engine rotates FYI
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
Likes: 3
From: MO
probably not the case, but is it in Park or similar issue preventing it from turning over? Not sure if relevant since worked on the engine only, but hey, you never know if this was impacted in the process. good luck!
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 472
Likes: 23
From: Western Australia
Sounds like the anti theft system has kicked in. In this mode it will almost start engine but not quite. I know you said you didnt replace the engine ecu, but i would try initializing the engine ecu with the engine anyway and see if it works. I had to do this when i replaced my engine ecu. (Again i know you didnt replace the ecu, but you did replace the engine) From memory you have to bridge a few terminals at the obd plug then turn ignition to on position (not turn over) and leave for several minutes then turn off and start engine.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
I'm still trying!
I replaced the cam and crank sensors. The engine still won't fire.
Can anyone give me the process for initializing the ECU?
Does anyone think it may be the ant-theft function, and if so,how can I reset (clear) it?
Thanks again,
Larry
I replaced the cam and crank sensors. The engine still won't fire.
Can anyone give me the process for initializing the ECU?
Does anyone think it may be the ant-theft function, and if so,how can I reset (clear) it?
Thanks again,
Larry
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 215
From: Ontario, Canada
When replacing the ECM of vehicles with the optional dynamic radar/laser cruise control system, it is necessary to configure the ECM for this option. Be sure to perform the following procedures after replacing the ECM.
(1) Turn the ignition switch ON.
(2) Turn the cruise main switch ON.
(3) With the brake pedal depressed, set the cruise control main switch to RES/ACC 3 times within 3 seconds. Check that the VSC buzzer sounds at this time.
(4) Turn the ignition switch OFF.
However, I don't think this would cause a no-start condition. What does your security indicator light blink? There are codes thrown when unregistered keys are inserted and for various failures involving the immobilser system.
Are you using Techstream or a basic OBD2 reader to check for codes? You need Techstream to see the full details of the extended codes that basic readers may not even show you. Don't disconnect the battery so you can preserve any DTCs.
Have you checked the fuel pump, fuel pump relay, circuit and connectors? Fuel injectors? All fuses and relays?
(1) Turn the ignition switch ON.
(2) Turn the cruise main switch ON.
(3) With the brake pedal depressed, set the cruise control main switch to RES/ACC 3 times within 3 seconds. Check that the VSC buzzer sounds at this time.
(4) Turn the ignition switch OFF.
However, I don't think this would cause a no-start condition. What does your security indicator light blink? There are codes thrown when unregistered keys are inserted and for various failures involving the immobilser system.
Are you using Techstream or a basic OBD2 reader to check for codes? You need Techstream to see the full details of the extended codes that basic readers may not even show you. Don't disconnect the battery so you can preserve any DTCs.
Have you checked the fuel pump, fuel pump relay, circuit and connectors? Fuel injectors? All fuses and relays?
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Engine won't start
The timing belt has arrows marked on the outside surface indicating the location of the timing marks. Should these marks point towards the front or rear of the engine?