LScowboyLS

exactly how does the luxury on a Mercedes exceed a Lexus??

if money were no object, I would take a Lexus over anything!

there is no luxury car that even competes with the current LS, and there really hasn't been a serious competitor in 23 years

and if money were truly no object, then Mercedes nor anyone else can even think of competing with this beast!

SaleenS7

As far as luxury features and driving feel goes, the Mercedes was ahead of Lexus hands down. The Lexus is definitely smoother, quieter and faster than my S420 which makes it more refined in that regard but it is missing a certain x factor...

LS400 weighs about 1000lbs less than the S420 but it feels much more muted and floaty especially when going around minor twisties and such. All the LS400s I've driven have this same characteristic. I looked forward to driving the S class, but with the LS it's basically 'meh'... It feels like the LS400 is driving me instead of me driving it. There's a missing x factor, it just feels plain jane... Just to be clear, I'm talking about driving the car in a normal fashion going the speed limit around these said twisties and on everyday roads in general.

The W140 was an over-budgeted and over-engineered Mercedes. It cost the company About one billion in total costs just to develop it. This body style was set to launch in 1989 but they delayed it to create the M120 V12 to launch with the vehicle to compete with the new V12 BMW 7 series at the time. The M120 V12 was later use in the Pagani Zonda supercar. Speaking of Zonda, If money was truly no issue it would be hard to decide between the new Zonda Huayra and a LFA.


I'll list as many pros and cons with the W140 as I can. Keep in mind this is only the S420 (which was pretty much a 'base model' V8 S class W140). As you'll see, the LS400 also has some of the same standard luxury features as the S420, but it falls short in many areas. Then again the LS was about $15-$20k cheaper than the S420.

Mercedes W140 S420 long wheelbase
Pros:

-Accelerator pedal and brake pedal were smooth even if you had a heavy foot. As a passenger you could not tell when the driver was pushing the brake or the gas. It made for a very serene drive even in constant stop and go. (The LS gas and brake pedals are more sensitive)
-Large moonroof. (I'd say about 25% larger) The shade had vents incase you wanted it closed from the sun but still wanted to tilt it for fresh air.
-Infrared locking system, could lower and raise windows with the remote.
-Auto/Dual zone climate control.
-Three position memory seats.
-Rain sensing windshield wipers with heated washer system. Headlights also had working wipers.
-Dual pane windows for improved insulation, soundproofing, reduced condensation and few other little benefits.
-Auto up/down on all windows. Windows will stop if they hit an obstruction.
-Close assist door.
-Close assist trunk. A chrome handle popped out when trunk was open and went in when closed. This was so that your hands NEVER got dirty when opening or closing the trunk.
-Rear passenger illuminated vanity mirrors integrated into roof.
-12 way powered/heated front seats (including thigh support) I cannot emphasize in words how much more comfortable the W140 seating positions were.
- 3 setting memory function with Lumbar support
-Electric folding mirrors with auto dimming/heat.
-(ASR) Acceleration Slip Regulation
-Brake Assist
-Dual zone climate with charcoal filter setting.
-Climate control could be set to run the heater even after the engine had been turned off without key in igntion. Same goes for radio.
-5 Speed driver adaptive transmission.
-11 speaker bose beta sound system with 6 disc CD changer (in trunk). Cassette player in headunit..
-Can choose to start in first or second year with 'W' Winter or 'S' Sport mode.
-Interior, although outdated, was oozing class. Very expensive materials.
-There was a god awful amount of legroom for rear passengers in the long wheelbase model.
-Rear defroster lines were built into the glass.
-If it's dark outside and you close the door after driving, the foglights will turn on for approximately 20 seconds or so to light up the driveway.


-Cons

-Had to point infrared remote to the doorhandle or trunk receiver from no more than 8 feet away to unlock doors.
-Slower and heavier vehicle. (I really don't understand how the S420 feels more fun to drive than the LS though, likely something to do with suspension/steering systems)
-It had the common 45-55mph steering wheel shake. Very minor but still annoying. Could not figure out where it was coming from. This is a very common problem with the W140.
-The heavy weight of the car meant that the suspension components and tires wore out much much faster than normal vehicles.
-Although it had the heart of a sports car, it was still a heavy sedan that had it's limits.
-The engine or transmission were not as powerful or smooth as the LS.
-Outdated instrument cluster. (I added chrome rings to mine but still looked outdated)
-Outdated exterior and interior design compared to the LS (but to be honest the LS400 interior and exterior is a bit bland)
-CD player in the trunk
-The stock 16" rims are ugly...
-Parts are expensive. Labor is equally as expensive, you need a special kind of mechanic to work on these cars.
-Side mirrors were sensitive. Bumped into mine on accident and broke the metal clip inside the housing unit. Was able to bond it back and avoid dishing out $500 for that one replacement mirror.
-The transmission service was a pain in the neck. The 'sealed for life' transmissions have been known to cause problems when fluids haven't been changed regularly.
-Many known problems with these vehicles.. Just search any Mercedes forum. It's enough to make one feel nervous about owning one.

I know I'm missing a lot more pros and cons, but that's what I could think of off the top of my head.

Feel free to post your inputs on the LS400s as well. I'm a huge car enthusiast so I look forward to reading all these kinds of things from different folks and seeing what they think of the LS/S class.



There are those who say the W140 is worth the repair, after all it was about $80k when new. I can't justify spending so much money into a car that I wasn't truly bonding with if a major repair bill came up. I was personally thinking to myself "I hope this car doesn't stab me in the back".

I figure since the LS400 is more reliable it will be worth keeping. But for the life of me I have just not been able to find a comfortable seating position in this car. It's driving my crazy...

Anyway if anyone is bored, feel free to check out some pics of the W140 here: Some of them actually look pretty good! on the other hand some of them look hideous.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...ml#post5556285

dengman

my main complaint when I first got my LS suspension was too soft. Even though its ridiculously low now I love it. When the time comes I'll raise it back up and put my normal wheels on and just drive it normal. I havent rode in a LS with lower spring rate coilovers so i cant compare how stiffer mine is.

SaleenS7

How is your ride quality with the megan racing coilovers and larger rims? I'm sure handling is a lot better and not as floaty! But how is steering feedback and comfort? Compared to stock, does it still have that sort of 'numb' feeling to it?

BTW nice body kit and wheel combo. It looks more aggressive compared to stock. Did you really plasti dip the entire car? I was thinking about plasti dipping my W140 white just for the hell of it but never went ahead with it because of how expensive it'd be just for a temporary thing.

I think it can look even better if you color your grille insert a darker color.

bdan

Congrats man! That black interior is making me jealous. Its so mint!

SaleenS7

Thanks bdan, I appreciate the compliment but there's no need to be jealous. The bottomline is that you still have a Lexus LS400 no matter what color interior/exterior.

Truth be told though, I wish I had a black exterior.

Mugenman08

Nice purchase and nice w140.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

I will tell you one thing. Put some KYB's and Tanabe's (or similar) and the handling vastly improves. With the simple setup I put on, the car feels totally different. The closest car I have owned that was similar was the 07 GT. But mine was a manual and much faster with all the mods. Much more feedback with the new suspension and you can throw her around pretty predictably. The LS springs are really soft from the factory. Mercedes suspension are generally sportier.

g8124u

I just got a similiar situation as SaleenS7 in that I just got a 1998 LS 400 with two owners and 129000 miles in almost the same shape its unreal for $5000 ---- here is the kicker - I have never driven a luxury car and I just went from a 1999 Honda that I paid $450 for. I dont know why that last owner didnt drive it maybe because he was military but it says that the timing belt was changed at 117,000 in 2008 that means he drove it LESS than 13,000 miles in almost 6 years. And I am so glad you all are here I am learning alot because I am no mechanic. But I want 400,000 I just love it. I am driving to Dallas from Little Rock on Tues and I cant wait to get on I30 on Texas side with the 75mph speed limits. But anyways I may go by Sewell to get those parts and fluid because you werent the first to say how easy the transmission fluid was to change and I just came from a car, that worked for me, but had a transmission that I have read all kinds of bad things about. Trying Googling 1999 honda transmission problems. Then I sorta looked at used cars online and went to my second used car dealership in 3days and I had no idea that i would be buying this car - I was looking for a good cheap 3000 car and I sat in this and couldnt believe it. It had probably got the worst of the paint jobs - some sorta light 'green' but it is not in anyway in bad condition. It was about like SaleenS7 said his was. Other than a brand new car I am not used to popping the hood and seeing the battery cables looking prestine and the battery as if it were just all put in there from the factory. And I had read an article years ago about how serious the Japanese were when it came to building the Lexus over there. I just meant to say thank you and that my hood shocks are gone to I think for like 35-40$ they can be replaced but if you guys have any input it would be appreciated cause I want to take care of this car, I am in Love!

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

PIcs plz and hood shocks take literally 15 minutes to change.

Legender

Hood shocks are easy... just follow the directions on the package and change out your frame inserts and you're good to go... did it on a couple of cars with ebay purchase from strong arm.

Yamae

I share a 96 Mercedes S500 with my brother and I know how it needs me to spend the maintenance time. I enjoy fixings and we are quite OK to maintain it but my brother says, "Without you, the car would have been sent to a junkyard."

My 98 Celsior had no trouble at all last year, on the other hand the S500 had 2 major and 4 minor failures in a year. It had some problem every 2 months.

LSpho

@SaleenS7 damn you're very thorough with your post, nice stuff. Old thread but great pick up and detailed post!

@g8124u hood shocks were simple, I changed mine yesterday. I didn't even know my packaging came with new ball joint bolts... I reused the old ones which added much more time than I needed. All in all should take you no more than 30 minutes tops if you ended up ripping the bolts off the old shocks...