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When the temps moderate, I will try again I'm sure things will improve
Lou
Originally Posted by anchaf3
Subjectively the car is much livelier and feels quicker. Objectively, the 60mph-100mph has improved. I was averaging 5.5-5.6 seconds now I consistently pull in the 5.2 range in the 60-100mph with my best being 5.15 seconds. As far as 0-60mph, I have had to get creative launching it because it now will break traction so bad with my pilot sport 4s tires. I can consistently pull 0-60 (with a 1 foot roll out) under 4.3 seconds now. The best time being 4.23 seconds. Before I would never break the 4.3 mark, and would usually be around 4.5, Occasionally I would have a dead hook launch with my old set up and get close to 4.3, but that very rare and under perfect conditions and having some luck. Overall it is quicker, no question.
Seems the first 2 swaps got Less Than Half A Second faster 0-60 and 60-100 for their $4000 + Labor.
How much more improvement do you think you're going to get??
Bruce in Fl
oh come on now, somewhere near the center of why you buy and play with a
car for you (and, essentially, you alone) that costs ~100k is the idea of enjoyment, fun; we dont buy these for technical reasons alone.
even the interior is designed to make the driver feel good.
Seeing LC500 owners successfully swapping their LSD's for the LC500h's higher FD LSD is really interesting too me. But a question arose, I saw talks about swapping in an even higher FD from the LS500 into the LC500 but since the LS500 lacks a proper LSD it would be counterintuitive, since then, would it be possible for a LC500/h LSD be swapped into a LS500 RWD? But from my limited knowledge, wouldn't the ESC and other electronics be tripped out? What do you guys think?
Note though that while the external cases of the differentials are the same between all models, the differential unit itself seems to potentially vary between different gear ratios. Not sure if this is a flange thickness difference or what, but there is the potential that a different differential unit may be required if you change the gearing. Getting the entire assembly like anchaf3 did is an option, but for the LS differentials, LSD wasn't an option, so if you want the 3.615:1 ratio, you'd need to either swap the gears into an LC diff, or swap an LSD into the LS assembly.
41201-59355 and 41301-11040 are the matched set for 3.615:1 with a Torsen LSD. 41201-59355 may fit the 41301-11020 Torsen, but it would need to be checked.
I'm wondering if the swap puts too much strain on the powertrain long term. I guess it's equivalent to a 15% torque boost to drive shaft and axle, and roughly 10% torque increase compared to what the lc500h is designed to handle, as the max torque of 500h is 360ish.
^^^^There is no increase in torque or anything else. The drive shaft sits before the diff. So, there is no change to the drive shaft or U-Joints. The LC diff is larger and more robust than the RCF one, so there is no issue. I don't see a problem with the axle shafts. Now, as far as increased power to the drive shaft is concerned, the first gear in the LC500 is 4.923, and in the RCF, it's 4.596. That's a 7% increase in first gear torque to the drive shaft. So, no, IMO, there is absolutely no stress danger to the drive train components.
Note though that while the external cases of the differentials are the same between all models, the differential unit itself seems to potentially vary between different gear ratios. Not sure if this is a flange thickness difference or what, but there is the potential that a different differential unit may be required if you change the gearing. Getting the entire assembly like anchaf3 did is an option, but for the LS differentials, LSD wasn't an option, so if you want the 3.615:1 ratio, you'd need to either swap the gears into an LC diff, or swap an LSD into the LS assembly.
41201-59355 and 41301-11040 are the matched set for 3.615:1 with a Torsen LSD. 41201-59355 may fit the 41301-11020 Torsen, but it would need to be checked.
Jeff
does anyone know if going with the LS500h diff would prove a substantial difference over the LC500h one or is the ratio too high that it would take too many shifts slowing down our 0-60 and 60-100. I know there’s an all motor isf running low 11s with a 3.7 but i’m not sure if that’s applicable here as they have an 8 speed and we have a 10 speed
^^^^With the ten-speed transmission, it should be fine. However, if you want to retain the Torsen, substantial swap work would be required. The times you mention will improve.
Summary: The LC500 rear differential has a final drive (not sure if this is the correct term, i am borrowing it from the motorcycle world) ratio of 2.94. The LC500h has a shorter final ratio, at 3.13. Why do you want a shorter ratio? Shorter gears mean more torque at every rpm, therefore more in-gear acceleration at the cost of top speed, at least in theory. There are multiple differentials that fit the LC500 including I believe some from the LS500 which all have the same exterior housings and are similarly plug and play, with different gear ratios (read the above links for more details on those).
However, to the best of my knowledge, if you wish to swap the entire differential (a much simpler and idiot proof job, as opposed to opening it up and swapping individual internal gears) and you want the Torsen LSD included, then you will need to use the one from the LC500h. Which one? Here are the part numbers:
41110-11050 - This is the entire differential from the LC500h including the Torsen LSD. This is a single self contained unit and all you need at the princely sum of about $4k USD. The drive shaft and axle seals are included with the package preinstalled but in case you need replacements, the part numbers for the seals are: 90311-47031 and 90311-47032
Installation is pretty straightforward, the exhaust muffler section comes off, the driveshaft, rear axle, and rear steer module (if you have one) is disconnected and the differential is swapped. Everything goes back in the same way it came out. The LC500h differential housing is completely identical to the LC500. The differential/torsen is completely mechanical, there are no electronic elements to worry about. No error codes, no weird behaviour from the car. Everything feels stock, and works without issue.
Is it faster? Unquestionably. It is far from subtle (but I would stop short of calling it a "night and day" difference). You will notice it the moment you step on the gas pedal the first time the car starts moving: There is a noticeable increase in torque/acceleration. Something I should also make clear: It is much more than something you could ever get from an exhaust and a tune on a naturally aspirated stock engine, which could cost similar amounts of money and compromise reliability, which this mod doesn't. I was trying to think about the best way to express it and my best attempt is that it feels like someone bored out my engine by another 500-800cc, so it feels like a 5.5 or 5.8L engine now. The power increase is across the entire rev range, and the best part of it is how much nicer it pulls from below 2000-4000rpm where this engine can feel a little anemic. At higher revs the power increase is less noticeable (probably because the engine is already producing a lot of power there). The lovely part of the way it feels is not only did I get more 'power', not only did I get it 'everywhere' in the rev range, but I also got a better car for street driving at the same time, which is great. If you would like some numbers I'll quote another forum member who did the mod and took some measurements in the earlier thread:
I would like to add to his opinion that I believe the traction control systems on our LC500s are simply too invasive. I did once try to disable TC fully, with fully warm stock dunlop runflat tires on hot tarmac and was able to floor the pedal in first gear and get the car to accelerate smoothly from absolute standstill (without brake boost) with no audible loss of traction (I did not hear any tire squeal or hear the rpm spike from tire spin) even with this new differential. Unfortunately I did not have measuring equipment to measure that run. I did the exact same run next with TC enabled and it was flashing lights and cutting power everywhere so yeah, the TC sucks on our vehicles and is far too conservative
Drawbacks? First of all this is not a cheap mod, but then again this is not a cheap car, and there is no way that spending this kind of money on the car on any other mod(without forced induction) will get you this kind of improvement in performance. So from a bang for the buck perspective, it is still a good deal IMO. There are also cheaper ways to do it if you are so inclined, by swapping out internal gears. But swapping out the entire differential is also a good idea if your LC500 does not come with a Torsen LSD and you want to have one, an added bonus.
Other drawbacks besides cost are a small but noticeable increase in engine braking off throttle, whether or not this will annoy you is highly subjective but not everyone will like it (it annoyed me slightly at first but I adapted after a while and it just feels normal to me now). The issue is slightly exacerbated by the fact that when coasting to a stop, the downshifts on the 10 speed are not the smoothest in the world, you get small changes in the rate of deceleration as you drop down the gears and the increased engine braking does accentuate this a little
Fuel consumption: Doing a 100% apples to apples comparison is difficult. When i first had the differential swapped, my fuel consumption skyrocketed because i was flooring it all over the place lol. Now that things have settled down a bit and I am back to my regular driving style, i would say fuel consumption has gone up by about 5-8%, for the same style of driving
How about top speed? Well on some other cars, you might lose a little, on this car, you lose nothing. The car is limited to 285km/h and the 10 speed is geared to reach that speed in 7th gear (at about 6000rpm). the only difference with this mod is that you will hit 285km/h at a slight higher rpm in 7th gear compared to before. In fact, with the improvement to in-gear acceleration, you will probably hit top speed a lot sooner compared to stock. You do lose a little 'top speed' in each gear due to the shorter gear but if anything it makes the car more fun to drive, especially in manual mode, because you're banging up and down that lovely gearbox even more. (Edit: I was wrong, limited top speed drops to 245km/h. Please read my post below to find out why)
Overall great mod, really happy with it. If you're ok with the cost, and can deal with a little more engine braking (Edit: or you actually spend time driving between 245 and 285km/h)...there really is no reason not to do it
Hope someone finds this useful, shoot me a question if I missed something and I'll try to answer if I can
Great Mod proposal ....are you sure that Top speed remains at 285? ,,,Im traveling often above 250 and if reduced can be an issue for me ... Thanks
Subjectively the car is much livelier and feels quicker. Objectively, the 60mph-100mph has improved. I was averaging 5.5-5.6 seconds now I consistently pull in the 5.2 range in the 60-100mph with my best being 5.15 seconds. As far as 0-60mph, I have had to get creative launching it because it now will break traction so bad with my pilot sport 4s tires. I can consistently pull 0-60 (with a 1 foot roll out) under 4.3 seconds now. The best time being 4.23 seconds. Before I would never break the 4.3 mark, and would usually be around 4.5, Occasionally I would have a dead hook launch with my old set up and get close to 4.3, but that very rare and under perfect conditions and having some luck. Overall it is quicker, no question.
Did you had the chance to check top speed ? still on 285km/h?
Guys, I need to make a small addendum to my earlier review of the differential swap regarding the top speed
In my original review, I mentioned the top speed would remain unchanged because the electronically limited top speed of 285km/h is reached at 6000rpm in 7th gear, which means that even with shorter gears, the car could simply rev higher (or in a higher gear) to get to that aforementioned 285km/h speed limit
Well, I was wrong
My assumption was that the 'speed limiter' in our LC500s are based on speedo readings. This is not the case!
The 'speed limit' is actually an 'rpm limit' - it simply stops producing power at 6000rpm in 7th gear onwards. On stock gearing, that is at 285km/h thereabouts. With this new differential, the speed at that gear/rpm is about 245km/h indicated. I have personally verified this at those speeds (don't ask me how I did it lol). Once you hit 6000rpm/7th gear/245km/h the car goes into a soft limiter mode where with the throttle pinned the car just maintains that rpm/speed and will not upshift. There is no sound/warning/alert from the engine, it just feels like someone turned the cruise control on at the limit rpm. In case anyone is wondering there is definitely nothing wrong with the car: I went in excess of 260km/h on it some time before I swapped out the differential
For most people I assume it wont matter. I doubt you would spend much, if any, time at those speeds, in which case then you don't have to worry about it. I'll be looking into getting myself a speed limiter removing device like the one made by Blitz or Tom's (which i suspect are the same units, just rebranded) and report back to let you guys know if it worked
285km/h - 177mph
245km/h - 152mph
for my american friends
In case anyone wants to see what the top speed limiter behaviour is like, go to 6:35 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Ka...nnel=AutoTopNL The video cuts away abruptly just after he hits the limiter but you can see the rpm bouncing back and forth at 6000rpm (speed 285/286kmh) for a second or two before it does
Heard about the site Amayama from a lot of the toyota forums. Decided to give it a try and get the rear diff from them. 2677 shipped which is way cheaper than buying from a dealer in the US. Was a little skeptical but thought it would be worth a chance in case any future LC owners want to get this part at a better price. Arrived on sunday. Whenever I get it installed i’ll make a youtube video
I got exactly same offer from Yoshi Parts delivered in Europe ...!
I'm sure things will improve
AND - ½ sec. in acceleration is a BIG Deal
But it certainly is satisfying when you can improve something
