Pricing Help on 2012 ISF
Rookie
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 37
Likes: 3
Salesman says "you're good" 
good at what? NOT BUYING A ISF?
Love it when someone is proud of getting bounced out of a car dealership, as if you're going to be walking across the street to pick up the other 2012 ISF at the other dealer.... You leave as the manager and salesman, say "what an idiot..."
Give it a break.... be realistic, do your research on what a fair deal is, come in ready to buy, and you'll be very surprised how much better your experience will be, and how much better they'll treat you. Because you can low ball all you want, bark at them, play hardball and stand your ground, doesn't matter.....bottom line is, they'll sell the ISF, to you or someone else, they don't care... no matter how "good" you are at negotiating. Being good at negotiations usually results in a fair deal with a buyer and seller, both party leaves happy, you leave with what you came in to buy, and they leave with their money. Shouldn't be so difficult if you've done your research and know what to expect to pay.
good at what? NOT BUYING A ISF?Love it when someone is proud of getting bounced out of a car dealership, as if you're going to be walking across the street to pick up the other 2012 ISF at the other dealer.... You leave as the manager and salesman, say "what an idiot..."
Give it a break.... be realistic, do your research on what a fair deal is, come in ready to buy, and you'll be very surprised how much better your experience will be, and how much better they'll treat you. Because you can low ball all you want, bark at them, play hardball and stand your ground, doesn't matter.....bottom line is, they'll sell the ISF, to you or someone else, they don't care... no matter how "good" you are at negotiating. Being good at negotiations usually results in a fair deal with a buyer and seller, both party leaves happy, you leave with what you came in to buy, and they leave with their money. Shouldn't be so difficult if you've done your research and know what to expect to pay.
Something I left out was that I got the sales manager to print out a cost of goods spreadsheet which I don't think I should post on this forum, but I will PM it to anyone who is willing to advise me. I'm not looking for feedback. I'm looking for mentor-ship.
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 81
Likes: 23
From: WA
Sorry for thread-jacking but I felt there was no need for another thread.
Today's Update:
I visited a dealership 1 hour away from my house.
Visited a 2012 Star Fire Pearl with 40,000 miles. Listing price was about $47 K so they printed me an invoice for $50.5k out the door.. I offered about 38 K and walked out. H
They were only willing to give me $900 off internet listing price which was $45,900.
They claimed their cost was $40 K.
I told them we were too far apart and went home.
Did I do the right thing? How could have my strategy improved?
Today's Update:
I visited a dealership 1 hour away from my house.
Visited a 2012 Star Fire Pearl with 40,000 miles. Listing price was about $47 K so they printed me an invoice for $50.5k out the door.. I offered about 38 K and walked out. H
They were only willing to give me $900 off internet listing price which was $45,900.
They claimed their cost was $40 K.
I told them we were too far apart and went home.
Did I do the right thing? How could have my strategy improved?
Because i happen to know when, where and from who they bough it from, and I know how much they paid. While they didn't pay 40,000.00 i can definitely tell you after auction fees, reconditioning, safety inspections, as well as any parts they put on it, IE: tires, brakes, windshield, etc... they are in it very close to 40k.
Id jump on it before its too late, this car will sell. Quickly, and for more then you think.
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 94
Likes: 8
From: AB
First visit and lowball is a way to get walked out the door, just as this guy and your dad did, having to come back, and come up on price.
Rare used IS-Fs are a different animal then new Subarus, completely different..... The same tactics will not work at all when dealing with an ISF. Also 15% off MSRP wasn't because your dad negotiated it that way, its because thats what those cars were selling for, and what the dealer had the ability to sell it for... Its because they had trunk money, and willingness to sell the car for that. Had your dad done his research and used the resources out there he would have saved himself a lot of time, only having to visit the store once. What you didn't tell us is how much your dad came UP on his offer each time back? Start at some crazy low number, and eventually pay "15%" off MSRP? Thats not much to brag about, because 15% off MSRP of an average 30K new Subaru is only $4500.00.... thats not what i would call a massive "WIN" off MSRP of a new car, thats pretty much industry average price off MSRP...
Go into a dealership with real empirical data and realistic expectations you'll get the same deal you do playing "hardball"....
It makes ZERO difference what the store's "cost" is.... if they got the ISF for 20K you think they'd sell for 23k? No, they'd still sell it for market value. Market value is how most dealers price cars, it isn't out of thin air typically.
Rare used IS-Fs are a different animal then new Subarus, completely different..... The same tactics will not work at all when dealing with an ISF. Also 15% off MSRP wasn't because your dad negotiated it that way, its because thats what those cars were selling for, and what the dealer had the ability to sell it for... Its because they had trunk money, and willingness to sell the car for that. Had your dad done his research and used the resources out there he would have saved himself a lot of time, only having to visit the store once. What you didn't tell us is how much your dad came UP on his offer each time back? Start at some crazy low number, and eventually pay "15%" off MSRP? Thats not much to brag about, because 15% off MSRP of an average 30K new Subaru is only $4500.00.... thats not what i would call a massive "WIN" off MSRP of a new car, thats pretty much industry average price off MSRP...
Go into a dealership with real empirical data and realistic expectations you'll get the same deal you do playing "hardball"....
It makes ZERO difference what the store's "cost" is.... if they got the ISF for 20K you think they'd sell for 23k? No, they'd still sell it for market value. Market value is how most dealers price cars, it isn't out of thin air typically.
And it doesn't make ZERO difference what the store's "cost" is... it's not the be-all end all, but it's ignorant to think that it doesn't factor into the sale price - just ask anyone you know that works in sales, they'll know EXACTLY what their margins are on what they're selling. This wouldn't be the case if it didn't matter. Cars are priced based on a combination of things, and you're correct in saying the supply demand curve is a major factor - but you're talking about setting the cost ("how dealers price most cars") - that's just the starting point. I'm talking about the ability to get a seller to move off that cost. Margins come more into play when you are trying to get a seller to deviate from the initial price - they're going to do everything they can to maximize margin (or avoid selling at a loss), because at the end of the day, the business is about making money; i.e. your margin. And please don't misunderstand, I agree that market demand is a huge factor in a buyer's ability to get the seller to deviate from the cost.
One thing I wholeheartedly agree with in your above post - and is definitely the most important piece of advice when going into a car purchase - is your recommendation to research the heck out of whatever you're buying. Hopefully OP doesn't get too distracted by this debate, and still takes this away from the discussion! haha.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 71
From: NC
Sorry for thread-jacking but I felt there was no need for another thread.
Today's Update:
I visited a dealership 1 hour away from my house.
Visited a 2012 Star Fire Pearl with 40,000 miles. Listing price was about $47 K so they printed me an invoice for $50.5k out the door.. I offered about 38 K and walked out. H
They were only willing to give me $900 off internet listing price which was $45,900.
They claimed their cost was $40 K.
I told them we were too far apart and went home.
Did I do the right thing? How could have my strategy improved?
Today's Update:
I visited a dealership 1 hour away from my house.
Visited a 2012 Star Fire Pearl with 40,000 miles. Listing price was about $47 K so they printed me an invoice for $50.5k out the door.. I offered about 38 K and walked out. H
They were only willing to give me $900 off internet listing price which was $45,900.
They claimed their cost was $40 K.
I told them we were too far apart and went home.
Did I do the right thing? How could have my strategy improved?
38K for a car listed at 47K is not going to work. They will just laugh at that.....
Last edited by 2URGSE; May 21, 2017 at 09:07 PM.
Rookie
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 37
Likes: 3
Is it the one at Lexus of Riverside?
Because i happen to know when, where and from who they bough it from, and I know how much they paid. While they didn't pay 40,000.00 i can definitely tell you after auction fees, reconditioning, safety inspections, as well as any parts they put on it, IE: tires, brakes, windshield, etc... they are in it very close to 40k.
Id jump on it before its too late, this car will sell. Quickly, and for more then you think.
Because i happen to know when, where and from who they bough it from, and I know how much they paid. While they didn't pay 40,000.00 i can definitely tell you after auction fees, reconditioning, safety inspections, as well as any parts they put on it, IE: tires, brakes, windshield, etc... they are in it very close to 40k.
Id jump on it before its too late, this car will sell. Quickly, and for more then you think.
I appreciate your responses!!! Please PM me the details of their purchase! I will buy you In-N-Out.
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 94
Likes: 8
From: AB
Sorry, missed this in my response as well
This is absolutely true, which is why I referred to the dealers cost (margins) in my previous post. It helps avoid the silly "hardball" discussions, and anyone that "barks" at a salesperson is a real ******* and likely is going to get a crap deal.
Sorry for the derail spacexmase, best of luck with your purchase!!
*snip*
Being good at negotiations usually results in a fair deal with a buyer and seller, both party leaves happy, you leave with what you came in to buy, and they leave with their money. Shouldn't be so difficult if you've done your research and know what to expect to pay.
Being good at negotiations usually results in a fair deal with a buyer and seller, both party leaves happy, you leave with what you came in to buy, and they leave with their money. Shouldn't be so difficult if you've done your research and know what to expect to pay.
Sorry for the derail spacexmase, best of luck with your purchase!!
Racer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 71
From: NC
^It's not over yet.
My dad negotiated ~15% off MSRP (and got 3m thrown in) on a new Subaru a couple years ago from a dealership (in a city with only two subie dealers) who is notorious for not moving below MSRP. He went there 3 times within a week, and each time the salesman moved a little further towards his price. Just be persistent, the first visit and lowball is a perfect way to start negotiating.
If at all possible it may be advantageous to bring the sales manager into the conversation and have him actually show you the cost on the car. Explain that you're not trying to take money out of their pockets, and tell them you respect the fact they're still in the business to make money. If their cost is *actually* $40k (which I doubt), I would expect them to not go lower than $43 or something. But I bet their cost is less than $40k, they probably hosed someone on a trade in.
Just my 2c.
My dad negotiated ~15% off MSRP (and got 3m thrown in) on a new Subaru a couple years ago from a dealership (in a city with only two subie dealers) who is notorious for not moving below MSRP. He went there 3 times within a week, and each time the salesman moved a little further towards his price. Just be persistent, the first visit and lowball is a perfect way to start negotiating.
If at all possible it may be advantageous to bring the sales manager into the conversation and have him actually show you the cost on the car. Explain that you're not trying to take money out of their pockets, and tell them you respect the fact they're still in the business to make money. If their cost is *actually* $40k (which I doubt), I would expect them to not go lower than $43 or something. But I bet their cost is less than $40k, they probably hosed someone on a trade in.
Just my 2c.
Who the hell pays MSRP or anything close to MSRP..................
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 81
Likes: 23
From: WA
Preach. I agree. I lost, they won the battle. It's a war though. The car isn't going anywhere today. I'm just looking for constructive criticism with some guidance with numbers.
Something I left out was that I got the sales manager to print out a cost of goods spreadsheet which I don't think I should post on this forum, but I will PM it to anyone who is willing to advise me. I'm not looking for feedback. I'm looking for mentor-ship.
Something I left out was that I got the sales manager to print out a cost of goods spreadsheet which I don't think I should post on this forum, but I will PM it to anyone who is willing to advise me. I'm not looking for feedback. I'm looking for mentor-ship.
They didn't sell, you didn't buy... the difference is give it a bit more time and they WILL WIN, just not with you maybe...
I already know what they paid and from where they bought it, and when, and I can tell you if they said they're in it 40K, while that may be rounded up, or a little inflated, not by much, a few hundred at most.
If i were you here are your steps IF you want this car, these steps will insure you don't leave any "money on the table"
Step 1: I would pony up and offer them 44,000.00 + T&L, if they say no proceed to step 2
Step 2: offer 44,500.00, and if they say no proceed to step 3
Step 3: say ok you have a deal at 45,000.00
Step 4: Sign your paper work
Step 5: DO NOT BUY ANY WARRANTY, GAP INSURANCE, PAINT SEALANT, LO JACK, or any other crap they throw at you... If you want that stuff buy it for $1,000s less at the bank your financing at (if you're financing). They'll add it to your loan, but for a lot less $ then the dealer will.
Step 6: (if financing, actually should be before step 1) go to your bank/credit union get pre-approved, for the terms and know what to expect for interest rate, because they will try to mark up the rate at the dealership. Also download an amortizing calculator, and know exactly what your payment should be at said $ amounts financed, and length of term, APR %. That way they won't "fluff" the payment meaning hide $ to sell warranties and make it look like the payment is only going up a few $ when in reality its costing you 50.00/month. This is also considered part of doing your research, become educated, and know what to expect.
Step 7: Get on with your life and enjoy the S*** out of your new ISF and not worry about a grand or 2 when your spending close to 50,000.00 on a car. Just enjoy your car, and move forward with having a good buying and owning experience.
Could you have saved 1-2000.00 waiting? Maybe? Could you have gotten one in Texas for 2-3,000.00 less? Maybe, not likely, but maybe? Could you find a rusted out one on east coast for 4-5,000.00 less? Maybe? But whats your time worth? I have to imagine someone willing to spend 40-50k on a 5 year old car you make a decent living, meaning your time is worth a decent amount of $$?
You aren't getting that car for much less then they're offering, no matter what.... they want to sell, but they don't want to sell for less then its worth, and believe me when i say out of anyone that knows what a 2012 clean ISF is worth its a Lexus dealer in CA.
Last edited by USB2011JAM; May 21, 2017 at 09:16 PM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 71
From: NC
If you're in CA and buying an IS-F in California like I did back in 2013, get your ducks in a row first.
Call or stop by Provident Credit Union and apply for a car loan, they usually have better rates than any bank and even the dealership. Once you're approved, print the letter and take it with you.
2. You're not going to buy a $47K car for $38K, if you think you're going to get 10,000 off an IS-F............you might want to start considering another car. It's not going to happen.
3. If you want some sort of "reasonable" payments, you would need about 10K down and an 84 month loan....................
4. Inspect the car and look at the service records.
Bottom line, if you found a 2012 ISF with 5,000 miles and you really want one............better make a move or it will be gone.
Call or stop by Provident Credit Union and apply for a car loan, they usually have better rates than any bank and even the dealership. Once you're approved, print the letter and take it with you.
2. You're not going to buy a $47K car for $38K, if you think you're going to get 10,000 off an IS-F............you might want to start considering another car. It's not going to happen.
3. If you want some sort of "reasonable" payments, you would need about 10K down and an 84 month loan....................
4. Inspect the car and look at the service records.
Bottom line, if you found a 2012 ISF with 5,000 miles and you really want one............better make a move or it will be gone.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 71
From: NC
NO ONE WON....
They didn't sell, you didn't buy... the difference is give it a bit more time and they WILL WIN, just not with you maybe...
I already know what they paid and from where they bought it, and when, and I can tell you if they said they're in it 40K, while that may be rounded up, or a little inflated, not by much, a few hundred at most.
If i were you here are your steps IF you want this car, these steps will insure you don't leave any "money on the table"
Step 1: I would pony up and offer them 44,000.00 + T&L, if they say no proceed to step 2
Step 2: offer 44,500.00, and if they say no proceed to step 3
Step 3: say ok you have a deal at 45,000.00
Step 4: Sign your paper work
Step 5: DO NOT BUY ANY WARRANTY, GAP INSURANCE, PAINT SEALANT, LO JACK, or any other crap they throw at you... If you want that stuff buy it for $1,000s less at the bank your financing at (if you're financing). They'll add it to your loan, but for a lot less $ then the dealer will.
Step 6: (if financing, actually should be before step 1) go to your bank/credit union get pre-approved, for the terms and know what to expect for interest rate, because they will try to mark up the rate at the dealership. Also download an amortizing calculator, and know exactly what your payment should be at said $ amounts financed, and length of term, APR %. That way they won't "fluff" the payment meaning hide $ to sell warranties and make it look like the payment is only going up a few $ when in reality its costing you 50.00/month. This is also considered part of doing your research, become educated, and know what to expect.
Step 7: Get on with your life and enjoy the S*** out of your new ISF and not worry about a grand or 2 when your spending close to 50,000.00 on a car. Just enjoy your car, and move forward with having a good buying and owning experience.
Could you have saved 1-2000.00 waiting? Maybe? Could you have gotten one in Texas for 2-3,000.00 less? Maybe, not likely, but maybe? Could you find a rusted out one on east coast for 4-5,000.00 less? Maybe? But whats your time worth? I have to imagine someone willing to spend 40-50k on a 5 year old car you make a decent living, meaning your time is worth a decent amount of $$?
You aren't getting that car for much less then they're offering, no matter what.... they want to sell, but they don't want to sell for less then its worth, and believe me when i say out of anyone that knows what a 2012 clean ISF is worth its a Lexus dealer in CA.
They didn't sell, you didn't buy... the difference is give it a bit more time and they WILL WIN, just not with you maybe...
I already know what they paid and from where they bought it, and when, and I can tell you if they said they're in it 40K, while that may be rounded up, or a little inflated, not by much, a few hundred at most.
If i were you here are your steps IF you want this car, these steps will insure you don't leave any "money on the table"
Step 1: I would pony up and offer them 44,000.00 + T&L, if they say no proceed to step 2
Step 2: offer 44,500.00, and if they say no proceed to step 3
Step 3: say ok you have a deal at 45,000.00
Step 4: Sign your paper work
Step 5: DO NOT BUY ANY WARRANTY, GAP INSURANCE, PAINT SEALANT, LO JACK, or any other crap they throw at you... If you want that stuff buy it for $1,000s less at the bank your financing at (if you're financing). They'll add it to your loan, but for a lot less $ then the dealer will.
Step 6: (if financing, actually should be before step 1) go to your bank/credit union get pre-approved, for the terms and know what to expect for interest rate, because they will try to mark up the rate at the dealership. Also download an amortizing calculator, and know exactly what your payment should be at said $ amounts financed, and length of term, APR %. That way they won't "fluff" the payment meaning hide $ to sell warranties and make it look like the payment is only going up a few $ when in reality its costing you 50.00/month. This is also considered part of doing your research, become educated, and know what to expect.
Step 7: Get on with your life and enjoy the S*** out of your new ISF and not worry about a grand or 2 when your spending close to 50,000.00 on a car. Just enjoy your car, and move forward with having a good buying and owning experience.
Could you have saved 1-2000.00 waiting? Maybe? Could you have gotten one in Texas for 2-3,000.00 less? Maybe, not likely, but maybe? Could you find a rusted out one on east coast for 4-5,000.00 less? Maybe? But whats your time worth? I have to imagine someone willing to spend 40-50k on a 5 year old car you make a decent living, meaning your time is worth a decent amount of $$?
You aren't getting that car for much less then they're offering, no matter what.... they want to sell, but they don't want to sell for less then its worth, and believe me when i say out of anyone that knows what a 2012 clean ISF is worth its a Lexus dealer in CA.
Rookie
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 37
Likes: 3
If you're in CA and buying an IS-F in California like I did back in 2013, get your ducks in a row first.
Call or stop by Provident Credit Union and apply for a car loan, they usually have better rates than any bank and even the dealership. Once you're approved, print the letter and take it with you.
2. You're not going to buy a $47K car for $38K, if you think you're going to get 10,000 off an IS-F............you might want to start considering another car. It's not going to happen.
3. If you want some sort of "reasonable" payments, you would need about 10K down and an 84 month loan....................
4. Inspect the car and look at the service records.
Bottom line, if you found a 2012 ISF with 5,000 miles and you really want one............better make a move or it will be gone.
Call or stop by Provident Credit Union and apply for a car loan, they usually have better rates than any bank and even the dealership. Once you're approved, print the letter and take it with you.
2. You're not going to buy a $47K car for $38K, if you think you're going to get 10,000 off an IS-F............you might want to start considering another car. It's not going to happen.
3. If you want some sort of "reasonable" payments, you would need about 10K down and an 84 month loan....................
4. Inspect the car and look at the service records.
Bottom line, if you found a 2012 ISF with 5,000 miles and you really want one............better make a move or it will be gone.
Thank you sir. Much appreciated!
Racer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 71
From: NC
The Beverly Hills dealer told me i was looking at the "wrong car" when I offered him 49,000 on a 52,000 IS-F, and that was back in 2012.
Once I realized this car is not very negotiable, I just got a brand new one a year later. Paid a little bit over invoice..........(and got lucky, someone snagged the 2012 I wanted 3 months before that happened)
Racer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 71
From: NC
Bottom line, they will not come down 2,000 dollars on it. 500 If he's lucky.
The IS-F is usually a take it or leave proposition. When my parents lived in Kirkland, WA, I went over to the Bellevue dealership and gave some # on an IS-F from another dealership and the salesman told me to go ahead and buy it since they couldn't compete with it.