ERDoc74

Ok... So first I was set on KW V3 coilovers to lower my car and make it better for the track, but then Figs had recently got the Penske coilover solution and is probably a better "track" solution, so then I decided to get those. But then I saw the thread that talked about having to "rebuild" the coilovers up to every 2 years! and that definitely turned me off on possibly getting coilovers in general.
I hadn't even considered springs until just today when I followed the Swift link from VIP's site...
http://www.swiftsprings.com/advantage.html
They seem to proport that their springs will give a "performance edge" on the track in addition to just having a more comfortable ride and of course lowering the car for an improved stance/look.
My wife has been complaining lately quite a bit about how much I've been spending on mods for my F, and I'm considering these as a MUCH cheaper alternative to coilovers ($300 for the swift setup vs around $5k for the penskes and $2k for the KW's) I've read others opinions about the Tein (and others) lowering springs saying that it improved ride comfort for them. I know that coilovers would be a better dedicated track solution than springs, but I want to know if:
A) Will (swift) springs also be an improvement in suspension performance for me at track days over OEM?
B) If so, how much is the typical install charge for front and rear?
C) Do coilovers really need to be rebuilt that often?
D) Should one just get the standard spring rates that VIP sells, or is it better if you have more HP than stock and also take the car to the track to get "higher spring rates"?
Thanks for your time in giving me feedback and I'm sorry if this has been covered before... (the search function on this forum BLOWS!!)

streetx

iTrader: (4)

with that being said, i have been jumping back and forth between selling the new swift springs i have in the box and getting kw v3 or just keep them and install them.

ERDoc74

LOL...I understand your pain! Thanks for the opinions!

UCrazyKid

All coilovers are, are springs and shocks mated together with often a range of ride heights being available using a threaded shock body. A well match shock and spring set can provide the same performance improvement as coilovers without the expense. If ride height adjustability is for look and/or corner blancing is important to you then you could go the route of adding a threaded sleeve and spring perch to a standard shock.

Coilovers are NOT the end all be all in suspension, they are trendy now, allow cars to be slammed to the ground and vary GREATLY in quality by brand. The cheap ones can blow out/leak and have problems with ride quality. The expensive ones can be amazing (like Penske or Ohlins) but are designed for use on dedicated track cars/race cars where frequent rebuilding is the norm.

Personally I believe 95% of owners would be perfectly happy with a set of Bilstein HD or Sport shocks and a set of Swift springs. If you want to go lower you can mate them to a set of Ground Control shock "sleeves" to add adjustability. Bilstein shocks have a lifetime warranty and will not require a rebuild. Their life span is ~70K+ miles.

The bottom line (in my mind) is that the ISF will never make the greatest track car due to limitations in overall weight, luxury features and a big heavy V8 hanging off the front. This by NO MEANS you cannot go out and have a wonderfully fun day at the track, but unless you strip it down and make a dedicated track car you can only get so much performance out of it.

The one caveat I have is if you stay with stock shocks and add performance springs (like Swift) you will probably affect the longevity of the shock as they will not be in their designed range of operation and perhaps they may be being "man handled" by a more aggressive spring rate. That is why you might be better choosing a shock that is better matched (in damping and travel), like Bilstein, Koni or Tokico.

Install varies greatly from shop to shop and the part of the country you are in. It is not a particularly difficult job, easier with a lift and air tools. You probably want to complete a 4 wheel alignment when done. With springs and shocks you will not do a corner balance afterwards.

Weapon F

I have to disagree with this statement there several members here on CL that track there F that have not been stripped down raced prepped cars, most do minor tweaks tires, brake pads, suspension etc. Here a video of CL members stock F on track the only mod are Michelin PSS tires you will see him lap GT3 Porsche and Lotus

http://youtu.be/lOsyUyNq0_Q

KJH

I disagree as well about the generalizations related to coilovers, as though the primary reason people purchase coilovers is to lower the car more than sport lowering springs will allow. I also do not know where this business about rebuilding coilovers every 2,000-miles came from. Three of my cars have coilovers, with my two Supras having Tein RA all-aluminum Circuit Masters (discontinued) and HKS Hipermax IIIs, respectively, and HKS Hipermax M1 coilovers on my IS-F. I have had the Teins on my black Supra since June 2001 (18,000 miles) and the HKS Hipemax IIIs on my red Supra since February 2009. The Hipemax M1 coilovers were installed on my IS-F at the end of 2011 so not enough time and miles yet. My point is, there is no reason a properly installed quality coilover system should not return a significant dividend on the initial investment. They allow the vehicle owner to set up the car to his preferences, including lowering, aligning, corner balancing and making informed ride/handling trade-off choices.

In all, I have had six sets of coilovers made by Tanabe, Tein and HKS. All have been quality systems and none have required rebuilding during my ownership. I do know that Tein-USA has a quality and inexpensive rebuilding service for those corners that need it, but I do not believe any of these systems would be sold if rebuilding every 2,000-miles was required. With Sport lowering springs, you have to do your best to match the springs with the OEM shocks. I had the Swift springs before I installed my HKS Hipermax M1 coilovers. They performed well, but not as well as the coilvers I have now. With the HKS Hipermax M1 coilovers, I have better handling AND better ride quality.

TokyoF

I've modded cars in the past (STi, Audi S4) simply using springs and have been very pleased with the improved performance. So to answer your question, yes.

ERDoc74

I read on here every 20K miles or 2 years or so.... don't think anyone said 2k miles...

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

You might be surprised, but, just springs can actually hurt how a car performs...

By lowering a car, especially when we are talking more than an inch, we are modifying roll centers and such and most of the time, the springs are somewhat generic and may not be balanced properly for the car they are going on...

anxiouz

iTrader: (9)

If the OP had an 08 I might be more apt to suggest springs/coils but with an 11 I can't say that I would advise either.

As 99% of ISF owners, I had a 350Z with just springs and swaybars which made a world of difference. Had just springs on an Evo 8 and that was totally fine. Then had JIC coils on another Evo 8 and that crap was harsh for a daily but man did it corner! On my 11 WRX I had H&R Coils (Bilstein = A+ always!!!) that rocked for all circumstances.

With the ISF I think the primary spring/coil decision is mostly based on lowering the stance more than anything. But my take on this is that springs can lower the car and firm things a little, but coils are the better option since it's a spring/strut combo designed to work together. I do feel that just putting springs in will strain the stock components more. But really, nothing crazy and worth worrying about.

If tracking is the primary reason...my personal opinion would be that better tires would provide you more satisfaction overall than springs. Coils will kill at the track but sacrifice your DD pleasure for sure. So you need to figure out the balance you want. I don't see the ISF as a track car so you need to just see what will get you the smile you're after. Simple tires or springs may suffice.

KJH

My mistake. I may have mixed up rebuild miles with the cost of some kits. Thanks for the clarification.

T-Rex06

iTrader: (12)

If you want to go with off-the-shelf springs, you can't go wrong with Swift. Spring rates are pretty good also. IS-F needs higher spring rate especially in the front since the car is front heavy.

Another option is go with Hyperco Springs. I believe you can order custom spring rates. If you go that route, I'd highly recommend you do shock dyno on your stock shocks so you can match spring rates to match the shock valving.

The reason you'd want to go with KW or Penske is that you don't have to worry about spring rates not matching the shock valving. I'm just strictly stating from the performance point of view. Hope it helps.

Terrance

MisterSkiz

iTrader: (2)

Also remember you might need some other aftermarket parts for the alignment.

I might be incorrect, but I believe we are unable to adjust rear camber on this car without some special arms?

CircuitMS

iTrader: (51)

Certain Coilovers will have to be rebuilt sooner than others. A tight tolerance track tuned damper would have to be rebuilt sooner than a lower tolerance "street" coilover.

The KW's should not have to be rebuilt every 2k miles.

They are a great set of coils for a mostly street driven car.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

To answer the question - springs can help and springs can hurt performance. But you have to ask the most important question first - do you want visual performance or mechanical performance? Most kits are intended for visual performance and do not take a whole host of mechanical considerations into their design equation. You put the kit on the car, it sits lower, and all your friends think your car is dope. Game over.

If you want mechanical performance there is a whole lot more homework you need to do, and there is tuning you'll need to do. The good news about the factory suspension - somebody actually sweated out the details and came up with an inexpensive, but reasonably well tuned solution. It will work better than the vast majority of aftermarket solutions - even the high dollar ones - simply because someone took the time to make it work as a system.

High dollar solutions mean a number of things - first, they expect you will be more critical of their mechanical performance, so they also expect you won't mind rebuilding them more frequently than the OEM parts.

Second, they expect you are bright enough to understand even the best shocks and springs will not out-perform OEM unless you set them up to deliver what you need for your intended purpose. So the big expense isn't buying the parts. The big expense is making them work together with your car, and that's either your time or your money paying someone else for his/her time to make it work right.

Third - marketing is an amazing tool to make people want to buy stuff, especially from people who make quality racecar parts, but again, you can't expect to bolt anything on the car and have an immediate and amazing improvement (measured with a watch, not your butt!) without spending the time to get it properly set up. If your driving is very consistent, you'll be able to both tune for improvement and run faster. If your driving is not consistent, you'll fool yourself into believing the thing you changed is responsible for the improvement (or degradation) you see when the reality is your driving is the culprit. Nothing beats seat time and professional instruction for making an immediate and very noticeable improvement in your driving.

We don't even want to get started with roll center, center of gravity, instant center, roll couple and roll axis discussions but springs impact all these things and can have a very negative impact on mechanical performance if you choose to just slam the car without understanding what it does to the chassis.