Merged 2021 IS re-design / refresh threads
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,089
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From: MI
In fact, what would be benefits of introducing a naturally aspirated version of V35A-FTS instead of rehashing 2GR-FKS, which has 318 hp at best?
Would an NA version actually put out less than the 2GR is the question, if the FI possibly adds 45% more hp to the 3.5L in LS 500? Ideally NA version does about 330-340hp. It's not 382, but then again it's not FI.
I'm looking forward again to IS 500.
Would an NA version actually put out less than the 2GR is the question, if the FI possibly adds 45% more hp to the 3.5L in LS 500? Ideally NA version does about 330-340hp. It's not 382, but then again it's not FI.
I'm looking forward again to IS 500.
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 360
Likes: 6
From: SG
Fair point about NVH, as I did fully understand the aspect of NA versus FI on the subject of 6s. I once only cared about having a Lexus TTV6 in a small body and not something LS-sized.
I was in love with the I6 IS 300 5-speed as a teen and wanted it as a first car. Being so disappointed in the new IS 250 MT, I eventually went for a G35S sedan and then left Infiniti over the Q50 and infinitely delayed real Q60
Anyway, V6 may have that stuff going for it above, but after 15 years in the IS, no effort has been made weasel around any previous 2GR-FSE limitations and up the power beyond 311 in newer FKS application.
Why is it that we get a 318 hp 2GR in LS 350 abroad and just 311 hp in the "new" 2021 IS 350? For 2020, 311 was fine. For 2021 and "new"? Nope. If an additional 7-12 hp was able to be squeezed out of LS 350, how about 320-325 hp in 2021+ IS 350, if 330+ is too high supposedly? Why no NA application of new V35A-FTS?
Other than a newly purchased 2020 TRD Pro Tacoma 6MT, I have never owned a 2GR product before. Only 1GR and have never had hands on with the 2GR-FKS nor FSE. Too bad a 2GR-GSE high performance equivalent has never been made (don't fully know internal TMC engine nomenclature).
We'll see what IS 500 is, which at worst would point to a 2024 MY redesign versus 2021.5/2022 higher offering.
I was in love with the I6 IS 300 5-speed as a teen and wanted it as a first car. Being so disappointed in the new IS 250 MT, I eventually went for a G35S sedan and then left Infiniti over the Q50 and infinitely delayed real Q60
Anyway, V6 may have that stuff going for it above, but after 15 years in the IS, no effort has been made weasel around any previous 2GR-FSE limitations and up the power beyond 311 in newer FKS application.
Why is it that we get a 318 hp 2GR in LS 350 abroad and just 311 hp in the "new" 2021 IS 350? For 2020, 311 was fine. For 2021 and "new"? Nope. If an additional 7-12 hp was able to be squeezed out of LS 350, how about 320-325 hp in 2021+ IS 350, if 330+ is too high supposedly? Why no NA application of new V35A-FTS?
Other than a newly purchased 2020 TRD Pro Tacoma 6MT, I have never owned a 2GR product before. Only 1GR and have never had hands on with the 2GR-FKS nor FSE. Too bad a 2GR-GSE high performance equivalent has never been made (don't fully know internal TMC engine nomenclature).
We'll see what IS 500 is, which at worst would point to a 2024 MY redesign versus 2021.5/2022 higher offering.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
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From: Singapore
. And for all the talk about turbo lag and such, I actually found it much more easy to drive the turbos because of the incomparable torque at one’s disposal. Just a light squeeze of the gas pedal and you have made big progress. Lexus NA means the motor revs to 6k and just sounds taxed, strained, and busy with gear changes all the time. Unfortunately, the IS300 motor, developed for much more mundane Toyota badged SUV’s, does not help the cause.
To my understanding, USDM Lexus models have their engine ratings done under the SAE J1349 testing procedures which accounts for additional parasitic loss and a lower overall hp rating compared to Japan's engine ratings (with no actually power differences between the same models).
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Under an IS F since 2008
Are the 2GRs in Japan making 318hp or 318ps (~314hp)?
To my understanding, USDM Lexus models have their engine ratings done under the SAE J1349 testing procedures which accounts for additional parasitic loss and a lower overall hp rating compared to Japan's engine ratings (with no actually power differences between the same models).
To my understanding, USDM Lexus models have their engine ratings done under the SAE J1349 testing procedures which accounts for additional parasitic loss and a lower overall hp rating compared to Japan's engine ratings (with no actually power differences between the same models).
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 360
Likes: 6
From: SG
Lived with, no, but very familiar with and driven the GS450h, in both 3&4GS versions, yes, (and enough to know that hybrid battery and inverter problems are more common than one would believe on these cars) and I have even driven them on the track. Quite refined, I agree, but still not as refined as the turbos I know because they don’t need the revs Lexus hybrids depend on to generate acceleration (post inverter replacement seems to dim performance a bit too). I would love to see the multi stage hybrid available on models below the LS/LC, like they have it in JDM Toyota Crowns. I was disappointed 3.5IS hybrid is using the same old system as previously...seems like no progress there for driving pleasure, because as many said, the handling, apart from steering numbness, is not bad.
I personally loved the gutless but super sweet 2.5V6 but recently lived with for a month almost, the current ES250...which persuaded me that engine refinement is no longer important to Lexus. I was further disappointed with the infotainment system, rippling ride quality and interior materials and ergonomics. There was one standout point, which was the steering response, reminding me that I miss the 4wheel steering Lexus did so well with on certain obsolete models.
I personally loved the gutless but super sweet 2.5V6 but recently lived with for a month almost, the current ES250...which persuaded me that engine refinement is no longer important to Lexus. I was further disappointed with the infotainment system, rippling ride quality and interior materials and ergonomics. There was one standout point, which was the steering response, reminding me that I miss the 4wheel steering Lexus did so well with on certain obsolete models.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 508
Likes: 100
From: CA
The numbers you are using for the 300 are for the base IS300 3.5 V6 AWD, not the four cylinder turbo. The four gets to 60 in 6.9 seconds.
I was all for the four cylinder until I test drove it. It sounded tinny and cheap, which I could not get passed. But it is a good cost value, and I think it's a mistake to not make the F-Sport a part of it. I bet they will bring back that option once sales settle down.
I was all for the four cylinder until I test drove it. It sounded tinny and cheap, which I could not get passed. But it is a good cost value, and I think it's a mistake to not make the F-Sport a part of it. I bet they will bring back that option once sales settle down.
This is the IS 300 AWD.
Factory claim for the IS 300 AWD from 0-60 is 6.1 seconds. As tested 6.6 seconds.
The IS 350 RWD factory claim is 5.6 seconds. As tested 5.5 seconds
The IS 300 RWD factory claim is 6.9 seconds. As tested 6.1 seconds. Which I find hard to believe. But I feel it is quicker than the 6.9 seconds that.Lexus claims.
I'm actually thinking they mixed the 300 RWD and 300 AWD results. That would make more sense.
Regardless, for my driving which is city and stop and go, I prefer having all the torque kick in early. Makes my commutes more fun. That's why I wish they still had an Fsport model in the turbos.
Last edited by GaryJG; Oct 17, 2020 at 10:43 PM.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
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From: Singapore
Some non F-Sport and F-Sport IS300h in Taiwan. The silver non F-Sport has the same wheels and exterior as the white non F-Sport IS300 I personally previewed in Singapore. But it is missing the memory seats of the Singapore spec IS.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 628
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From: OK
0-60 in 4.5 is slow for performance sedan. A mid tier M340i does it in 4 seconds flat. A Model 3 Performance does it in 3 seconds flat. Both are about $55k. A $65k RCF is already overpriced and slower than these cars so it seems the V8 isn't all that's it's cracked up to be. I'd rather they just stick in the LS 3.5L TT and see how that goes.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Under an IS F since 2008
Some non F-Sport and F-Sport IS300h in Taiwan. The silver non F-Sport has the same wheels and exterior as the white non F-Sport IS300 I personally previewed in Singapore. But it is missing the memory seats of the Singapore spec IS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOPwu8R9c90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOPwu8R9c90
^^ Nice... USA, the #1 selling market for Lexus won't ever see an IS300h.
Joe Z
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2018
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From: OK
That is incorrect. I bet it was an older is300 with a detuned IS350 motor in it that was mentioned here. It is 0.5-0.7 second slower than a full 3.5L version of the motor. However, IS200t is slower than that - about 6.5-7.0 seconds. So, there is a 1-1.5second difference between is350 and is200t. I own the former, and driven the latter - is200t feels adequate but def slower.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 628
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From: OK
inflation. even with moderate “targeted 2%” inflation, a car that had MSRP of 50k 5 years ago, would need to cost 55k just to compensate for that 10% “increase” due to 1.02^5=1.104
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
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From: CA
Part of car ownership experience is how it drives and feels, not just under acceleration. Tesla is the fastest car due to huge torque from 0 to 50... after that NA beat it, but it is not a regime that most cars are driven at. Also - teslas are good for commuting, but they removed a big portion of the driving experience - the sounds and noises (apart from cracks, squeaks and rattles that are now more audible due to engine soundtrack no hiding it). Also, good mileage RC Fs right now go for $40-55k, and still offers good experience and reliability (unlike BMW cars). And no, 340i does not offer 4 second 0-60 flat but more like 4.5-5.0 second 0-60. That is just 0.5 seconds slowed than IS350 RWD, which is a plenty fast car in traffic.
If the Model 3 and BMW 3 series are the benchmark of the segment with the highest sales, should Lexus strive to offer a competitive product at the $55k price point? Seems like they missed out on that metric.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 628
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From: OK
Just to clarify, the M340 is doing 3.8s to 60 (tested by C&D, look it up) and the IS350 at best is a 5.5s car so thats a pretty big difference and one that can be felt. Also, the Tesla will pull on an M3 to 110mph at which point the M3 will begin reeling in the Tesla and pass around 130mph (again, tons of videos proving this on Youtube) so EVs are pretty much faster on any roads outside of the Autobahn If the Model 3 and BMW 3 series are the benchmark of the segment with the highest sales, should Lexus strive to offer a competitive product at the $55k price point? Seems like they missed out on that metric.
If the Model 3 and BMW 3 series are the benchmark of the segment with the highest sales, should Lexus strive to offer a competitive product at the $55k price point? Seems like they missed out on that metric.https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...i-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/
Can you provide a link to the page you got for the claim of 340 doing “0-60 4.0 seconds flat” from?
Wouldnt it be more honest if you were comparing GSF to that M340i, then?
upd2: disregard the previous update. I should have read more about B3 first.
For M340i: “Our test of the rear-drive M340i resulted in a 3.8-second run to 60 mph, so if BMW's word holds true, a 3.5-second zero-to-60 time awaits”. But again, you are comparing a 70k dollar M340i vs 50k dollar car...
On a personal note, if I were cross-shopping it like that, it would be a very flawed ferrari designed QV... which costs 75k (starting price) and offers a lot more than M340i or any BMW could ever hope to give her driver.
Last edited by sunamer; Oct 18, 2020 at 09:13 AM.