you could for an RC350 f sport, which is around the same price as an IS350 with the dynamic handling package now. the RC is still a really good car for everyday driving and if you want to have fun you can

 

Interesting.

 

I see no reason to consider replacing my IS F with these offerings. Shame that. I like the newer tech in the wife's GS F for sure.

 

What's interesting is how most reviews mention that the ride quality is a lot more compliant than the pre-refresh. The marketing and hype emphasized the "track performance" which matters little when the engine is too underpowered to notice the handling-at-the-limit difference from the old model, so it might have been smarter for Lexus to have emphasized the improved ride quality to appeal to a wider audience. Acura made the same mistake with the new TLX by advertising it as a performer when its real improvements over the old one were on ride comfort and NVH.

 

I can understand the frustration with Lexus keeping the same power train and platform but how do you think they get to be rated #1 in reliability? They don't take chances. They are slow to evolve. Being #1 in reliability is their key differentiator. That's what makes their brand so valuable. Don't expect them to try and compete on tech and rushing new AI to the market -- leave that to Audi. One thing you can be sure of is that you'll still be careening through the canyons in your IS with 150K miles on it if you so choose -- and it'll still feel as solid as new. Also, no surprises when you buy a Lexus -- you may not get the doodads -- but you get a high quality components. Just my .02.

 

I have no issues with being conservative with the chassis and drivetrain to maintain reliability but why didn’t they upgrade the inside like they did the outside? Apart from the widescreen why not add perks like auto fold mirrors, memory seats, head up display etc which will not impact reliability?

 

Yeah, that's a drag. Point of reference -- I owned a 2012 Genesis 5.0. It had all of the stuff i.e lane departure, adaptive cruise control, etc. But the backup camera was low def and the air conditioning unit would not cool the car on 100 degree days -- and this was a problem with every Genesis sold -- they went cheap to hit a price point and margin. IMO. Lexus said, well, we're not going to do that -- we just won't give you it. IMO. it's always about profits -- cut corners where the consumer can't see they're cut -- or don't offer the features. Some guy posted that he had to replace the bushings on his BMW at 50K -- it's built that way. What? Who expects that? But I'll bet he had a lot of cool **** on his car. Just my .02.

 

That's nonsensical, considering in the past they were pretty consistent in updating their products on a reasonable time table.

They have gotten complacent, plain and simple. GS 300 quickly gave way in 1997 to both GS 300 and 1UZ GS 400. In 2000, it was quickly replaced by GS 430. GS 300 became a holdover V6 in early 2005 and GS 350 in late 2005/early 2006.

GS 430 was briefly carried over in 2005 and complemented by GS450h in 2006, replaced by GS 460 in 2007. GS 460 died in 2011.

2JZ IS 300 lasted 5 years in USA, before being replaced in 2005 with 2GR IS 350 and 4GR IS 250. 2GR IS 350 has been in continous production for 15 years since August 2005, while weak I4T IS200t/IS300 RWD replaced IS 250 V6 in 2015 and has yet to be impressive.

This current cycle doesn't make or break projected reliability on new powertrains, as it just ensures no capital is spent on worthy replacements and profit margin is fatter, since the original cost for GR engine development was paid off ages ago.

I am sick of that cop-out, apologist excuse often for Toyota's ineptitude and complacency. They went from 1UZ V8 "4.0L" to 3UZ "4.3L" in 11 years (1989, 2000). 3UZ 4.3L to 1UR 4.6L in just 6 years (2000, 2006). 2UR has been in production since 2007, with no replacement. 1UR replacement is seemingly V35A-FTS 3.5L TTV6, since Q1 2018.

2UZ "4.7L" to 3UR "5.7L V8" in just under 9 years between January 1998 and late 2006. 3UR V8 is barely being replaced 15 years later in 2021 with V35X-XXX TTV6+hybrid.

It just doesn't take this long and they are sitting on their asses, because enough customers will provide excuse after excuse and justify buying same old engine product, 10x over and how no one should complain, despite spending around $50,000 on average per unit.

Fuel economy is hardly impressive on many of these GR and UR engine vehicles, let alone lesser performance. Their time is over, yet Toyota keeps kicking the can further down the road.

 

I just wish I could get the 2.0 turbo in an Fsport. I actually prefer it better since I do more city and stop and go freeway traffic. (Los Angeles). It takes double the rpms for the 350 to match the 300's torque and both cars can go 0 to 50 in about the mid 4's

 

Just like BMW's NA inline-6 3L is now considered a masterpiece/classic and fondly remembered with teary eyes by BMW aficionados who memorializes the BMW IL6 as BMW's heyday as the Ultimate Driving Machine, I suspect the 2GR-FSE/FKE will be as fondly remembered by Lexus-philes for its high specific output, its seamless throttle response and its compactness(thus helping keep the polar motion of inertia towards the car's center and thus helping in weight distribution and handling.

You guys might bellyache now but perspective is key. Wait a few years and people might grow mighty sick of how turbo lag and non-linear throttle response has become commonplace and yearn for a good NA large displacement V6/IL6.

 

I never said getting rid of NA 6-cylinders. Very interesting how Nissan VQ37 3.7 puts out 350 hp in stock form at the highest levels, yet 2GR FKS 3.5 allegedly can't do better than 318 hp (see GSF50 LS 350).

Why wasn't the IS 350 massaged to produce at least 330 hp? It's been 15 years and only an increase of 5 hp? Really? If the want for NA V6 is desirable, why not just offer a tuned V35A-FTS above it as a halo offering? We'll see where IS 500 leads to, as a complement to outdated IS 350 with 311 hp at best.

People loved the older NA I6 BMW cars beyond their engines, but tasteful design and driving abilities (less focused towards comfort like F30). As the owner of now both 6MT E90 M3 and E92 M3, searching for an E46 M3 6MT and possibly 330i ZHP, I'm more than aware.

Lexus is the same brand that went from NA I6s to V6s, solely cuz...Toyota (brand wants/needs). MZ and VZ V6 family engines understandably needed replacement with modern GR V6 by 2004, but Toyota dropped the ball on never developing a new line of JZ replacements with R suffix instead of Z.

It was all about the ¥ & $, nothing else. At least BMW still has a line of I6s, so much that they had to lend one of them to Toyota for their halo sports car the Toyota Z4upra *sorry*, ahem...Supra.

Toyota really thought they were being clever and enterprising by ditching the I6 JZ without developing a direct replacement. All because VQ ironically showed, they could harmonize all 6-cylinders under 1 engine family. Guess that Supra turned P280 LFA project was too expensive to justify another Toyota-badged halo car in the early 2000s and thus JZ was no more. Then when they had an about-face in early 2010s about that past decision over I6s, it was too late to turn back the clock.

I have never understood the admonishing of any of us disappointed in Toyota, for falling behind and not trying to keep up. In the past 15 years, they could have improved the 2GR to a competitive level if they wished to. Business wise, they should ask themselves why so few IS 350s are sold compared to their 6-cyl competition.

 

My opinions are not "nonsensical". FYI, Toyota is ranked number 11 on the list of most valuable brands $41.5 B -7% $187 B Automotive. The next auto manufacturer is MB at 23. What is that lofty brand value built on? https://www.forbes.com/the-worlds-most-valuable-brands/#1ac177cd119c

 

IIRC, the 3.7L VQ engine from Nissan is coarse and unrefined and does not manage NVH as well as the 2GR-FSE.

I get your point that Toyota/Lexus does not approach engine development from the perspective of a car enthusiast but irrespective of its intentions, it did inadvertently produce enthusiast friendly engines (in terms of smoothness, linear predictable responses, refinement, high specific output, compactness, reliability and easy maintenance) like the 2GRFSE.

 

Fair point about NVH, as I did fully understand the aspect of NA versus FI on the subject of 6s. I once only cared about having a Lexus TTV6 in a small body and not something LS-sized.

I was in love with the I6 IS 300 5-speed as a teen and wanted it as a first car. Being so disappointed in the new IS 250 MT, I eventually went for a G35S sedan and then left Infiniti over the Q50 and infinitely delayed real Q60

Anyway, V6 may have that stuff going for it above, but after 15 years in the IS, no effort has been made weasel around any previous 2GR-FSE limitations and up the power beyond 311 in newer FKS application.

Why is it that we get a 318 hp 2GR in LS 350 abroad and just 311 hp in the "new" 2021 IS 350? For 2020, 311 was fine. For 2021 and "new"? Nope. If an additional 7-12 hp was able to be squeezed out of LS 350, how about 320-325 hp in 2021+ IS 350, if 330+ is too high supposedly? Why no NA application of new V35A-FTS?

Other than a newly purchased 2020 TRD Pro Tacoma 6MT, I have never owned a 2GR product before. Only 1GR and have never had hands on with the 2GR-FKS nor FSE. Too bad a 2GR-GSE high performance equivalent has never been made (don't fully know internal TMC engine nomenclature).

We'll see what IS 500 is, which at worst would point to a 2024 MY redesign versus 2021.5/2022 higher offering.

 

The numbers you are using for the 300 are for the base IS300 3.5 V6 AWD, not the four cylinder turbo. The four gets to 60 in 6.9 seconds.
I was all for the four cylinder until I test drove it. It sounded tinny and cheap, which I could not get passed. But it is a good cost value, and I think it's a mistake to not make the F-Sport a part of it. I bet they will bring back that option once sales settle down.