Anyone Trade their 2IS for the 3IS
07-16-13, 08:45 PM
#136
Lexus Test Driver
I disagree.
Otherwise, cars will have only 2 gears and call it a day. Many drag racing muscle cars use 3 speed autos because they have tons of torque produced by the engine so they don't need several shorter gears to multiply the torque.
The whole point of having more gears is that it can free up the lower gears to be shortened so that the torque multiplication could be increased while the last 2 gears can still do the duty of overdrive with less than 1:1 ratio. In theory, while I have not looked at the 3IS ratios, the 7th and 8th should be doing the overdrive duty while the first 6 should be covering the entire speed range.
Trust me, the benefit due to torque multiplication from shorter gear FAR outweighs the additional milliseconds it will take for shifts.
Otherwise, cars will have only 2 gears and call it a day. Many drag racing muscle cars use 3 speed autos because they have tons of torque produced by the engine so they don't need several shorter gears to multiply the torque.
The whole point of having more gears is that it can free up the lower gears to be shortened so that the torque multiplication could be increased while the last 2 gears can still do the duty of overdrive with less than 1:1 ratio. In theory, while I have not looked at the 3IS ratios, the 7th and 8th should be doing the overdrive duty while the first 6 should be covering the entire speed range.
Trust me, the benefit due to torque multiplication from shorter gear FAR outweighs the additional milliseconds it will take for shifts.
Yes, it absolutely is.
Every shift takes time and energy. If 4 shifts can keep the engine in it's power band, adding two more shifts to bring them closer together won't do much. It's counter-productive unless the 4 ratios before were so wide apart that acceleration was hindered.
Every shift takes time and energy. If 4 shifts can keep the engine in it's power band, adding two more shifts to bring them closer together won't do much. It's counter-productive unless the 4 ratios before were so wide apart that acceleration was hindered.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 07-16-13 at 09:00 PM.
07-16-13, 09:04 PM
#137
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No, because 2 gears would be entirely WAY too tall and wouldn't NOT be able to keep the engine in it's power band.
You can absolutely have too many gears, otherwise they'll just keep adding ratios for more performance.
The fact of the matter is that the 3IS is slower than the 2IS by more than can be attributed to the 66lbs weight increase.
You can absolutely have too many gears, otherwise they'll just keep adding ratios for more performance.
The fact of the matter is that the 3IS is slower than the 2IS by more than can be attributed to the 66lbs weight increase.
07-16-13, 09:04 PM
#138
Guys, based on my test drive of the IS350 with the new 8 speed auto, the new 3IS is actually a tad slower than the old 2IS350 with the 6 speed unit.
Gearboxes must achieve a balance in the number of gear ratios.
Too few gears like a 2 speed auto is no good.
Too many gears is no good either.
The new 8 speed box is questionable if it had achieved better performance or better economy at all.
We may be approaching the era of using too many gears.
For those who are holding off for a 4GS with an 8 speed auto, I'd say don't waste your time - get the 4GS with the 6 speed unit now; the 8 speed unit makes little difference.
May be there is some improvement, but that improvement is largely taken away by the new increased weight...
Gearboxes must achieve a balance in the number of gear ratios.
Too few gears like a 2 speed auto is no good.
Too many gears is no good either.
The new 8 speed box is questionable if it had achieved better performance or better economy at all.
We may be approaching the era of using too many gears.
For those who are holding off for a 4GS with an 8 speed auto, I'd say don't waste your time - get the 4GS with the 6 speed unit now; the 8 speed unit makes little difference.
May be there is some improvement, but that improvement is largely taken away by the new increased weight...
07-16-13, 09:11 PM
#139
Lexus Test Driver
Well, my point was, scrutinizing the 8 speed auto does not serve any purpose unless we know the gear ratios and final drive ratio and how it compares with the gear ratios and final drive of the older 6 speed auto.
Just the number of gears does not tell much at all. It is more about how Lexus decided to utilize the 8 gears.
Just the number of gears does not tell much at all. It is more about how Lexus decided to utilize the 8 gears.
Guys, based on my test drive of the IS350 with the new 8 speed auto, the new 3IS is actually a tad slower than the old 2IS350 with the 6 speed unit.
Gearboxes must achieve a balance in the number of gear ratios.
Too few gears like a 2 speed auto is no good.
Too many gears is no good either.
The new 8 speed box is questionable if it had achieved better performance or better economy at all.
We may be approaching the era of using too many gears.
For those who are holding off for a 4GS with an 8 speed auto, I'd say don't waste your time - get the 4GS with the 6 speed unit now; the 8 speed unit makes little difference.
May be there is some improvement, but that improvement is largely taken away by the new increased weight...
Gearboxes must achieve a balance in the number of gear ratios.
Too few gears like a 2 speed auto is no good.
Too many gears is no good either.
The new 8 speed box is questionable if it had achieved better performance or better economy at all.
We may be approaching the era of using too many gears.
For those who are holding off for a 4GS with an 8 speed auto, I'd say don't waste your time - get the 4GS with the 6 speed unit now; the 8 speed unit makes little difference.
May be there is some improvement, but that improvement is largely taken away by the new increased weight...
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 07-16-13 at 09:14 PM.
07-16-13, 10:31 PM
#141
The new GS250 actually reach its maximum speed at 5th gear and no acceleration on 6th gear. Don't know how it is with the GS350 and IS350 with 8 gears.
Last edited by UpSideDown; 07-17-13 at 12:47 AM.
07-17-13, 12:51 AM
#142
Lexus Test Driver
The addition of the 8-speed in the IS and other cars is to improve fuel economy. Has little to do with acceleration.
The 3IS putting on weight is what should be faulted with the redesign. In this day and time, no new car should be going in that direction.
The 3IS putting on weight is what should be faulted with the redesign. In this day and time, no new car should be going in that direction.
07-17-13, 01:18 AM
#143
It is not about "throwing it out of the powerband".
The whole point of having an 8 speed auto is, having 2 overdrive gears free up the first 6 gears to be shortened. Shorter gearing means more torque multiplication from gears.
That is all in theory. Now, it could be possible that Lexus for whatever reason have the new 8 speed auto in IS350 has actually taller gearing than the older 6 speed auto, which makes it less "punchy".
Ofcourse, I have been really wanting to see the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 3IS and want to compare with the 2IS 6 speed gear ratios to draw a conclusion.
The whole point of having an 8 speed auto is, having 2 overdrive gears free up the first 6 gears to be shortened. Shorter gearing means more torque multiplication from gears.
That is all in theory. Now, it could be possible that Lexus for whatever reason have the new 8 speed auto in IS350 has actually taller gearing than the older 6 speed auto, which makes it less "punchy".
Ofcourse, I have been really wanting to see the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 3IS and want to compare with the 2IS 6 speed gear ratios to draw a conclusion.
2nd 2.724 98KM/60mph
3rd 1.863 143KM/88mph
4th 1.464 183KM/113mph
5th 1.231 217KM/134mph
6th 1.000 ??????
7th 0.824 ??????
8th 0.685 ??????
Reverse 4.056
Final 3.133
Last edited by Nigel-JDMParts; 07-17-13 at 01:35 AM.
07-17-13, 01:32 AM
#144
I drove the 2013 IS350 8 Speed
The 2013 IS350 is tad slower for 0-60, and a lot slower for 0-100km
2nd gear is right at 60mph/98km
For 0-100km you gotta go to 3rd gear.
The old IS350 06 model have a very long 4th gear and gotta wait very long to get to 5th gear.
The new 2013 IS350 on the other hand do not have that. I don't feel like waiting when it is accelerating, it might have an advantage on higher speed.
I took the car to around 125mph/200km, the car accelerate pretty quick.
The old IS350 will take some time to get to 200km (top out 4th gear, then go on 5th gear.)
The new 350 will just go to 200 easy. (4th gear at around 180km and go to 5th gear.)
The new IS350 definitely "FEEL" slower and it does have a slower 0-60 and 0-100km time than the old 350 for sure!
But is it really slower after 60mph and 100km, I am not sure.
The 8 speed gear box might help accelerate at higher speed.
The 2013 IS350 is tad slower for 0-60, and a lot slower for 0-100km
2nd gear is right at 60mph/98km
For 0-100km you gotta go to 3rd gear.
The old IS350 06 model have a very long 4th gear and gotta wait very long to get to 5th gear.
The new 2013 IS350 on the other hand do not have that. I don't feel like waiting when it is accelerating, it might have an advantage on higher speed.
I took the car to around 125mph/200km, the car accelerate pretty quick.
The old IS350 will take some time to get to 200km (top out 4th gear, then go on 5th gear.)
The new 350 will just go to 200 easy. (4th gear at around 180km and go to 5th gear.)
The new IS350 definitely "FEEL" slower and it does have a slower 0-60 and 0-100km time than the old 350 for sure!
But is it really slower after 60mph and 100km, I am not sure.
The 8 speed gear box might help accelerate at higher speed.
07-17-13, 01:40 AM
#146
Guys, based on my test drive of the IS350 with the new 8 speed auto, the new 3IS is actually a tad slower than the old 2IS350 with the 6 speed unit.
Gearboxes must achieve a balance in the number of gear ratios.
Too few gears like a 2 speed auto is no good.
Too many gears is no good either.
The new 8 speed box is questionable if it had achieved better performance or better economy at all.
We may be approaching the era of using too many gears.
For those who are holding off for a 4GS with an 8 speed auto, I'd say don't waste your time - get the 4GS with the 6 speed unit now; the 8 speed unit makes little difference.
May be there is some improvement, but that improvement is largely taken away by the new increased weight...
Gearboxes must achieve a balance in the number of gear ratios.
Too few gears like a 2 speed auto is no good.
Too many gears is no good either.
The new 8 speed box is questionable if it had achieved better performance or better economy at all.
We may be approaching the era of using too many gears.
For those who are holding off for a 4GS with an 8 speed auto, I'd say don't waste your time - get the 4GS with the 6 speed unit now; the 8 speed unit makes little difference.
May be there is some improvement, but that improvement is largely taken away by the new increased weight...
The old 6 speed shift slow.
07-17-13, 01:45 AM
#147
07-17-13, 03:48 AM
#148
Here is a video on 2nd gen IS250 reach 260km/h @ 5th gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YljatwLkz9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YljatwLkz9s
07-17-13, 05:34 AM
#149
I drove the 2013 IS350 8 Speed
The 2013 IS350 is tad slower for 0-60, and a lot slower for 0-100km
2nd gear is right at 60mph/98km
For 0-100km you gotta go to 3rd gear.
The old IS350 06 model have a very long 4th gear and gotta wait very long to get to 5th gear.
The new 2013 IS350 on the other hand do not have that. I don't feel like waiting when it is accelerating, it might have an advantage on higher speed.
I took the car to around 125mph/200km, the car accelerate pretty quick.
The old IS350 will take some time to get to 200km (top out 4th gear, then go on 5th gear.)
The new 350 will just go to 200 easy. (4th gear at around 180km and go to 5th gear.)
The new IS350 definitely "FEEL" slower and it does have a slower 0-60 and 0-100km time than the old 350 for sure!
But is it really slower after 60mph and 100km, I am not sure.
The 8 speed gear box might help accelerate at higher speed.
The 2013 IS350 is tad slower for 0-60, and a lot slower for 0-100km
2nd gear is right at 60mph/98km
For 0-100km you gotta go to 3rd gear.
The old IS350 06 model have a very long 4th gear and gotta wait very long to get to 5th gear.
The new 2013 IS350 on the other hand do not have that. I don't feel like waiting when it is accelerating, it might have an advantage on higher speed.
I took the car to around 125mph/200km, the car accelerate pretty quick.
The old IS350 will take some time to get to 200km (top out 4th gear, then go on 5th gear.)
The new 350 will just go to 200 easy. (4th gear at around 180km and go to 5th gear.)
The new IS350 definitely "FEEL" slower and it does have a slower 0-60 and 0-100km time than the old 350 for sure!
But is it really slower after 60mph and 100km, I am not sure.
The 8 speed gear box might help accelerate at higher speed.
for "old" 6 speed, thats for sure... I noticed that acceleration after 170-180 kmh got pretty slow in my 3GS... two extra gears might have improved this.
3IS is probably quieter than 2IS, this might also make it "feel" slow.
When I was driving GS250, it felt crazy slow, even though its 0-100kmh is not bad at all (for a car in Europe).... but probably all the sound isolation makes it feel a lot slower than reality.
