Check Engine Light - Check VSC
07-19-12, 06:19 PM
#151
What year is your car?
The reason Toyota may have told you that an ECU change was needed is because there was a change to a completely different TYPE of O2 sensor at some point and the old part was discontinued and superceded. Because the new O2 sensor part works differently, and outputs different values to the ECU the ECU was superceded by a new part as well.
How do I know this? Because I brought the car in to check out the idle issues - this was before all of these TSBs for top engine cleaning, valve springs, and now rings happened. They said my O2 sensor was a bit out of range and had to be replaced. It was under warranty, so no problem I said go ahead. My service invoice showed the new ECU and the TSB for that particular issue which I looked up and explained this.
That being said, I'm positive that there would be aftermarket direct replacement O2 sensors for the old part that wouldn't require an ECU change. I am not entirely sure why they went through the trouble of changing the O2 sensor to the point of needing a redesigned ECU but I guess there must be some good reason.
Anyway, still no o2 sensor codes for me after things dried off.. I'm going to file this under driving through flooded roads in the GS is a bad idea.
I forget is the old type of gas gap the black cap with the write writing? That's what I've still got in my car and though it hasn't caused any issues for me yet I always feel like it comes off way too easy when I fill up. It doesn't matter how many times I click it closed... but the O ring seems to be in fine shape.
The reason Toyota may have told you that an ECU change was needed is because there was a change to a completely different TYPE of O2 sensor at some point and the old part was discontinued and superceded. Because the new O2 sensor part works differently, and outputs different values to the ECU the ECU was superceded by a new part as well.
How do I know this? Because I brought the car in to check out the idle issues - this was before all of these TSBs for top engine cleaning, valve springs, and now rings happened. They said my O2 sensor was a bit out of range and had to be replaced. It was under warranty, so no problem I said go ahead. My service invoice showed the new ECU and the TSB for that particular issue which I looked up and explained this.
That being said, I'm positive that there would be aftermarket direct replacement O2 sensors for the old part that wouldn't require an ECU change. I am not entirely sure why they went through the trouble of changing the O2 sensor to the point of needing a redesigned ECU but I guess there must be some good reason.
Anyway, still no o2 sensor codes for me after things dried off.. I'm going to file this under driving through flooded roads in the GS is a bad idea.
I forget is the old type of gas gap the black cap with the write writing? That's what I've still got in my car and though it hasn't caused any issues for me yet I always feel like it comes off way too easy when I fill up. It doesn't matter how many times I click it closed... but the O ring seems to be in fine shape.
07-19-12, 06:27 PM
#152
Ok, the cause of all my "check everything" lights has been identified and resolved. It ain't the gas cap.
Turns out in my case all the lights I initially get when they appear are all steering related. Unfortunately, I could never get the car to the dealer when all the lights were on. Last summer I did, but the valet turned the car off and when the tech turned it back on the lights were gone. The check engine light was never on so none of the codes stayed in any memory.
Two weekends ago, I got the lights while on the way home from work. I diverted right to the dealership and they were able to pull all the active codes. When Lexus' National TASC (sp?) was notified of the exact codes they instruced the tech to load test the battery. They have seen my combinations of codes before. The battery failed. I must note, that the battery had enough juice to start the car every day and never gave me any traditional battery problems. Oddly enough last June, I had taken the car by an Autozone to check the battery on a whim. What appeared to be a fumbling high school kid that couldn't figure out the test equipment hooked up two wires to my battery and in less then 20 seconds was telling me his meter indicated that my battery "failed". I passed this off more to maybe an inexperienced kid not knowing how to use the equipment as the car was starting fine and the battery was holding a charge.
Anyway. It turns out that on occassion my battery was heating up and then emitting some kind of gas that would effect the power steering ECU which is located directly below the battery support. When the gas got into the steering ECU housing it would cause miscommunications in the CAN BUS system starting with the steering system and anything related. Once the CAN BUS system was throwing up, other odd issues would appear: for example, the temperatur gauge would drop to C, the outside temp woudl change from a number to E and the light behind the automatic transmission gear selector would go out.
The battery was replaced with a domestic Lexus battery. (Point of interest: Interstate makes these batteries and puts the Lexus name on them). Since this has been going on intermittently for two years now, Lexus has picked up the cost of the battery and intstallation as well as all the diagnostic attempts over the passed two years. AWESOME!
They also informed me that they have been having problems with the factory original batteries (which were made by Panasonic).
Suggestion, if you are having the same codes as I stated in the quote, then have your battery load tested. It could be the cause of your lights as well.
steviej
Turns out in my case all the lights I initially get when they appear are all steering related. Unfortunately, I could never get the car to the dealer when all the lights were on. Last summer I did, but the valet turned the car off and when the tech turned it back on the lights were gone. The check engine light was never on so none of the codes stayed in any memory.
Two weekends ago, I got the lights while on the way home from work. I diverted right to the dealership and they were able to pull all the active codes. When Lexus' National TASC (sp?) was notified of the exact codes they instruced the tech to load test the battery. They have seen my combinations of codes before. The battery failed. I must note, that the battery had enough juice to start the car every day and never gave me any traditional battery problems. Oddly enough last June, I had taken the car by an Autozone to check the battery on a whim. What appeared to be a fumbling high school kid that couldn't figure out the test equipment hooked up two wires to my battery and in less then 20 seconds was telling me his meter indicated that my battery "failed". I passed this off more to maybe an inexperienced kid not knowing how to use the equipment as the car was starting fine and the battery was holding a charge.
Anyway. It turns out that on occassion my battery was heating up and then emitting some kind of gas that would effect the power steering ECU which is located directly below the battery support. When the gas got into the steering ECU housing it would cause miscommunications in the CAN BUS system starting with the steering system and anything related. Once the CAN BUS system was throwing up, other odd issues would appear: for example, the temperatur gauge would drop to C, the outside temp woudl change from a number to E and the light behind the automatic transmission gear selector would go out.
The battery was replaced with a domestic Lexus battery. (Point of interest: Interstate makes these batteries and puts the Lexus name on them). Since this has been going on intermittently for two years now, Lexus has picked up the cost of the battery and intstallation as well as all the diagnostic attempts over the passed two years. AWESOME!
They also informed me that they have been having problems with the factory original batteries (which were made by Panasonic).
Suggestion, if you are having the same codes as I stated in the quote, then have your battery load tested. It could be the cause of your lights as well.
steviej
07-19-12, 07:32 PM
#153
What year is your car?
The reason Toyota may have told you that an ECU change was needed is because there was a change to a completely different TYPE of O2 sensor at some point and the old part was discontinued and superceded. Because the new O2 sensor part works differently, and outputs different values to the ECU the ECU was superceded by a new part as well.
That being said, I'm positive that there would be aftermarket direct replacement O2 sensors for the old part that wouldn't require an ECU change. I am not entirely sure why they went through the trouble of changing the O2 sensor to the point of needing a redesigned ECU but I guess there must be some good reason.
I forget is the old type of gas gap the black cap with the write writing? That's what I've still got in my car and though it hasn't caused any issues for me yet I always feel like it comes off way too easy when I fill up. It doesn't matter how many times I click it closed... but the O ring seems to be in fine shape.
The reason Toyota may have told you that an ECU change was needed is because there was a change to a completely different TYPE of O2 sensor at some point and the old part was discontinued and superceded. Because the new O2 sensor part works differently, and outputs different values to the ECU the ECU was superceded by a new part as well.
That being said, I'm positive that there would be aftermarket direct replacement O2 sensors for the old part that wouldn't require an ECU change. I am not entirely sure why they went through the trouble of changing the O2 sensor to the point of needing a redesigned ECU but I guess there must be some good reason.
I forget is the old type of gas gap the black cap with the write writing? That's what I've still got in my car and though it hasn't caused any issues for me yet I always feel like it comes off way too easy when I fill up. It doesn't matter how many times I click it closed... but the O ring seems to be in fine shape.
Car is '05 (Europe got it a good bit earlier than you did) GS300.
Has had all its TSBs done, and I don't think valve springs were affected in the 3L, only the 3.5, shared by the hybrid.
Never paid any deal of attention to the filler cap, but from memory it is black - the raised white lettering may've rubbed off, as it's not standing out in my mind.
I'd be interested to learn if you were to enquire with a dealer about O2 sensors, whether you'd be asked if you'd had the upgraded ECU?
Think about that for a moment - what part number are non-upgraded ECU owners being quoted, compared to yourself?
I know from asking the price today at the parts dept, there was no mention of needing to know, unless when asking for the registration of the car, the system knew which part to highlight.
To satisfy my own curiosity, I may call in and ask if the system does have different part nos.
If it doesn't, then I have my suspicions all's not as it seems.
If that's the case, and as it's never been subject to a recall (hellishly expensive), then something doesn't add up about the remedy to problem.
07-20-12, 06:48 AM
#154
Should've mentioned the low fuel light was on, and indicated 19 miles range.
Low fuel light came on shortly after driving off on the day of purchase, so headed for the nearest fuel station before hitting the motorway for the long journey home.
Never cranked the filler cap down, and gave it one or two clicks (as I had always done with the Accord) out of habit, and similarly when I refilled 300 odd miles later.
Is there any correlation between low fuel level and this filler cap malarky?
Just wondering if it's only when starting on low fuel, does the pressure change which requires extra tightening of the cap to compensate for a worn O-ring?
Low fuel light came on shortly after driving off on the day of purchase, so headed for the nearest fuel station before hitting the motorway for the long journey home.
Never cranked the filler cap down, and gave it one or two clicks (as I had always done with the Accord) out of habit, and similarly when I refilled 300 odd miles later.
Is there any correlation between low fuel level and this filler cap malarky?
Just wondering if it's only when starting on low fuel, does the pressure change which requires extra tightening of the cap to compensate for a worn O-ring?
07-24-12, 12:04 PM
#156
P0158 came back randomly again after a short drive today. O2 sensor again... car is still covered under the emissions warranty so making an appointment with a dealership.
Funny thing is, a TSB related to this was already performed a couple of years ago which involved the changing out of the ECU. I think the sensor itself is just mucked and the whole TSB doesn't need to be applied again, well I hope not because that TSB involves an oil change for some reason and I JUST changed the oil with full synthetic the other week and the last thing I want them doing is draining it out and replacing it with dino now.
Funny thing is, a TSB related to this was already performed a couple of years ago which involved the changing out of the ECU. I think the sensor itself is just mucked and the whole TSB doesn't need to be applied again, well I hope not because that TSB involves an oil change for some reason and I JUST changed the oil with full synthetic the other week and the last thing I want them doing is draining it out and replacing it with dino now.
07-24-12, 04:28 PM
#157
The mechanic I spoke with, and mentioned in an earlier post, says he has seen plenty of the RX's with O2 sensors needing replaced.
He claims the engines run hotter than other marques, which has a tendency to put more strain on the sensors downstream due to elevated exhaust temps.
It's a well known design "trick" to lower emissions.
If you are out of warranty when it happens again, and measuring the O2 sensor with a voltmeter indicates it has given up the ghost, consider trying the NGK replacement rather than the OEM (Denso?) automatically.
He said the NGK are more tolerant/robust - that they're cheaper by quite a bit is an added bonus!
He claims the engines run hotter than other marques, which has a tendency to put more strain on the sensors downstream due to elevated exhaust temps.
It's a well known design "trick" to lower emissions.
If you are out of warranty when it happens again, and measuring the O2 sensor with a voltmeter indicates it has given up the ghost, consider trying the NGK replacement rather than the OEM (Denso?) automatically.
He said the NGK are more tolerant/robust - that they're cheaper by quite a bit is an added bonus!
07-24-12, 09:39 PM
#158
Actually it appears in Canada the O2 sensor is not considered a major emissions component by lexus so I'm out of luck... just cleared the code and so far can't get it to return. No use doing anything about it until it is throwing codes regularly... maybe something is still slightly wet... as right after the first time it was set after driving through some flooded roads, it would throw the code nearly immediately after clearing and starting up again and then slowly the frequency decreased...
11-14-12, 05:58 PM
#159
My VSC warning light, ABS and an exclamation in yellow came on today on the way home fom work on my 06 GS300 RWD. After reading this thread, I tried my gas cap. It does seem to unscrew much more easily than I remember it in the past. I also thought that after my last fill up. I guess I'll be going to Lexus tomorrow. I wonder if the CPO extended warranty covers this or possibly the fuel emissions warranty.
11-22-12, 10:41 AM
#160
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Hi All,
I had an old change on 11/20/12 and today (11/22) on my way home from church three lights and the message check VSC message appeared on my 2007 ES350. I did not feel anything strange or differentso I continued driving since I was almost home. Now when I turn the car on the 3 lights and message appears. I'm afraid to drive it so I will call the dealership tomorrow to get advice. I read the different messages from you guys and don't think I should drive it. Now I have to get a ride to Thanksgiving dinner.
I had an old change on 11/20/12 and today (11/22) on my way home from church three lights and the message check VSC message appeared on my 2007 ES350. I did not feel anything strange or differentso I continued driving since I was almost home. Now when I turn the car on the 3 lights and message appears. I'm afraid to drive it so I will call the dealership tomorrow to get advice. I read the different messages from you guys and don't think I should drive it. Now I have to get a ride to Thanksgiving dinner.
11-26-12, 02:59 PM
#161
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Just for what it's worth, I had the VSC light along with the check engine light on and a new gas cap fixed the problem immediately. Autozone cleared the codes (before and after the new gas cap) and we are back to normal. Car has just under 60K miles on it.
2006 GS300
2006 GS300
01-30-13, 06:02 AM
#164
Well the code came back on and was unfortunately stranded at the side of the road 60 miles away from home. I'm a little bit disappointed and embarrassed as I always speak highly of Lexus and how it would never leave me stranded. Unfortunately that seems to no longer be the case.
Took the car to the dealer and it was indeed the fuel pump (P0087). I'm out of warrant so had to flip the bill. The service of the service advisor was also not up to par with what I would of expect of Lexus so I'm anxiously waiting for the Customer Survey. How do you not call a customer with an update on whats going with the car, especially if the car would remain their overnight. This advisor came highly recommended from the sales guy when my wife got her 2013 GS.
I still love my car but for the first time I'm somewhat paranoid as to what might break next. Yes, I know its only one incident but it brings a harsh reality that Lexus may not be as bullet proof as they use to be.
