So up until a day ago I had a mild performance build planned. I've read all the negative threads on how this and that is worthless and to go turbo. But I have built many cars for my situation and have satisfaction in the reasonable performance increase. California smog compliance is important and a turbo kit is out of the question. I'm planning BC 264 cams with intake and full exhaust as supporting mods. I know the 264 cams will pass the 5 gas test and will not be detectable. The headers being the only part that will be a quick and easy swap back to the catted manifold for smog time.

My question is on tuning the car. I had my sight set on the Apexi AFC-Neo or SAFC-2, But I've been hearing that it won't work or wont do anything. I was under the impression that it was the way to go and I've read tons of builds use them and on many different cars over the years. So what are the other options? What is needed to fine tune the car?

The cams, as mild as they are, are advertised as "plug and play" with no tuning or supporting mods needed. However with cams, intake, and exhaust work Id like to maximize the car with tuning. I know it would benefit from that. I'm not looking for big power. I just want my daily to have a little more get up and go. There cars are heavy and if I could get another 20-30hp out of it it would be a more satisfying ride. The cams are cheap and I will be doing all the work myself and know how to clearance the lifter buckets etc. I just want to be able to dial the car in. Anyone have experience with getting their car tuned? Or how it was done?

 

Sell GS300, buy GS400 or 430. There ya go, instant 90 to 105 lb-ft of torque to get you moving, and an extra 80hp, 50 state legal. Way more than you will ever get with cams and an AFC.

NA tuning a 2JZ is pointless, period. I'm not saying this to ruin your fun, I'm saying this because it is an exercise in futility. You will spend more money than you would just trading into a V8 car, and you'll get less of everything.

There's an NA Supra that I really like, it's a super clean car, looks great, sounds amazing. Cams, ITBs, fully built head, custom 6-1 header, AEM Infinity ECU, full exhaust, stock 10.5:1 compression ratio, and running E85. Just about everything you can do to a 2JZ-GE without doing the bottom end, so you can imagine how much that costs. The most I've seen it do on a dyno is 300rwhp, so maybe 20-30 more hp than a bone stock dime-a-dozen V8.

 

I do agree with you. But this is the car I have is all, and I have it really on point after picking it up and fixing its issues. For $650 I can get the cams and $75 for the headers. It isn't that expensive and can be done in a day. I think it will be a cool project and it will have a little added touch of my own and some more fun on the street. Like I said, big power ins't the goal. I have other cars for that. I picked this car up for a grand and made it my daily. It's a slug compared to what I'm use to.

I do want an explanation on why tuning an N/A 2jz is pointless though. This is the information Im after actually. At some point you must fix your parameters when changing things. My vette is an N/A build for example. Being N/A didn't make it not need a tune. Its computer is fully tunable from the factory though making it easy to just go to a tuner and have it dynoed to its best. This car isn't like that and needs a piggy back ecu or a stand alone system to be done. But it still would need it done if a person wanted the car to run on point. What I'm asking is: what way it is done in these cars? As I said, I did read all the threads about why all this is pointless and I'm not buying it. Ive read how headers are pointless, how cams are pointless, etc. But Ive never seen a car that didn't make power from these mods. When you think about it, it's impossible that cams won't make a nice increase. You physically increase lift and duration bringing in more air and fuel. It has to make power. And of course, headers will make the cam swap work even better. I suspect the car to be 25-30 hp over stock and I'd be happy with that. I think it would take fine tuning though and thats the info I need.

So why would the 2jz be any different from any other engine that does benefit from tuning? That I would really like to know. Because it seems to be said a lot around here.

 

Because it doesn't make power.

Your vette is a V8 with probably twice the displacement of a 2JZ. It makes power by being big.

Increases are relative. To make 300rwhp out of a 2JZ is over 100rwhp increase over stock, greater than 50% more. To get 50% more power to the ground out of any naturally aspirated motor is difficult. At the crank, that motor is probably around 350hp, which is very good for only 3.0L and 10.5:1 compression. Based on that guesstimate, that represents 116.7hp per liter of displacement. A 2017 Corvette Grand Sport sells with a 460hp, 6.2L V8 with direct injection, variable valve timing, dry sump, forged pistons, and an 11.5:1 compression ratio. That's 74.2hp per liter.

It's small. It's only 3.0L, which is not a lot for a sports car, much less a porky sports sedan. Like the example of that NA Supra shows, it actually does make a lot of power for its size, especially at a low-ish compression ratio. It took all the things you said, and more, to get to that point though.

The most important part though, is that a naturally aspirated 3.0L I6 with... maybe 210whp is not enough for a 3700lb car with a sluggish automatic transmission. That's why we have the V8s and why Japan got the 2JZ-GTE.

 

For the sake of getting onto my question. Lets agree that tuning wont make power. It doesn't have too. The point is peak efficiency. Knowing that the car isn't running pig rich, or leaning out. Not having to put octane booster in every gas stop because its pinging or whatever may come from not being tuned right after modifications. I want to have the a/f ratios dialed in throughout the powerband. This is a peace of mind thing for me.

That being said. I'd still like to know what people are using to tune these cars. I'm a believer in doing things right, and to me it is the right way.

Now if you are telling me you are certain that the car will effectively self learn and run within its parameters after doing this, Id be comfortable installing the cams while still researching the way to tune it. But in my experience turning has always been necessary and makes a vehicle more powerful and efficient even in factory form. Especially after something like a cam swap.

 

I feel like I've wasted my time trying to get through to you.

What you're attempting is objectively pointless.
Don't waste your money.

You're talking about spending well over a thousand dollars by the time you buy all the parts, have them installed, and tune the car on a dyno. And you will get ****-all out of it. The factory ECU is capable of compensating for 264 cams. Which, again, are pointless in a GS. You can tune with an AFC for a marginal increase at great expense. You can tune with a standalone for a slightly greater but still marginal improvement. Waste of money. Make your car handle better or something, spend your money on tires instead.

 

I'm not in agreement with what you think is pointless, so feel free not to respond if it's such a waste of your time. If I want to do a mild N/A build, its my choice. It shouldn't bring you such aggravation. If its not the route you'd go, its your pejorative. There's nothing to "get through to me". I feel that I can get 25ish hp out of a days work. That's a good day for me. My question is about fine tuning the car and I'm still interested in doing it. Thank you for your input. Money isn't the issue. $1g isn't ****. My Vette build cost me in the $20g range by the time it was done. I just want my daily driver to perform a little better and remain on point with its economy etc. Thats worth a G to me. Its the car I drive every day, so its worth it.

I knew this question would bring more opinions on the build rather than answers, but I'm still seeking the answer to what tuner or software to go with and why.

 

Already told you, you can use an piggyback AFC or a standalone. The only difference between brands is how the software works. They all fundamentally do the same things, which is control fuel and timing.

The guy with the Supra uses AEM Infinity, some people have used GReddy e-Manage. You can use a Haltech, or a PowerFC, or whatever. You can use a piggyback AFC from whomever you want if they support the 2JZ, it's up to your tuner to get the most out of it. It doesn't matter. People with IS300s who use BC 264 cams usually don't use an AFC because you don't need to and it's a waste of time and money, because the factory ECU can handle them fine, as per Brian Crower. FIGS Engineering races an NA IS300 and they've also advised not to bother with a 264+AFC combo.

If you're such a baller that you want to throw money in the toilet ignoring advice just to make a pathetic amount of power, go right ahead. You're going to get walked by stock GS400s all day and your fuel economy is still going to suck.

Ps: this was you, yesterday
Except you chose to disregard all of the information. If I had known, I wouldn't have bothered trying to help.

 

I have just seen it in many times over the past 15 years when people put performance parts on a non turbo Supra but yet want turbo motor results. You need to make a dollar cost to hp ratio chart and unless you don't mind spending more to get less, you will see why many people do not spend the money for such small results. Sure cams and a proper tune will get you a bit more power which is what you are trying to accomplish but I just do not understand why for such a small limited power gain? Unless you plan on custom individual throttle bodies, nitrous or something more along those lines then you will get some more usable power out of it but even once all that is done you are still limited. Given the turbo options for the 2jz or the standard power of the v8 you just have way better options out there if at the end of the day power is what you are looking for.

 

Why not just go with the GTE swap and get much more power and better fuel economy? Especially if money isn't an issue. You will still have the reliability and comfort as the car will function as if it came that way from the factory (In Japan they did).

 

Because this would be illegal in the state of California. I am not interested in paying people off to pass cars anymore. Did that all through my 20s on multiple vehicles over years. It's a hassles, its expensive at up to $500 for a "dirty smog", it makes selling a car tough if you decide to sell it because you must smog the car during a transfer of ownership also. There are many reasons.

Part of it is the fun factor to do the job and drive what you've built. I am not looking for big power. My plan is 100% based on the need to stay California smog compliant. My daily driver must be legal because here, if you are into performance of any kind, you always need a fall back car you can count on. I had a beat looking eclipse that was mechanically sound for this purpose for years until it got wrecked. This car is my replacement daily/ grocery getter/ legal register-able car. I like the car and it's what Iv'e got, so I'd like to get a little more out of it. What you guys aren't getting is that for the under a grand I'll spend on this, it totally seems worth it to me. Ive been in Cali long enough to know where I can push the limits on smog, and know how to beat the system altogether. However this car will remain in smog legal parameters. Thats all.

 

That California smog causes so many problems, it needs to be abolished. All we are trying to say for the little amount of performance you will get, it is just not worth spending any money on. Lexus from the factory has tuned everything for a balance of performance, fuel economy and emissions. If you want to go for it then you have to go for it.

 

Your plan of intake, exhaust, header, cams, AFC or ECU, and dyno time will cost more than $1,000 unless you find most of those parts second-hand. What you aren't getting is that there are way better things to spend money on in a GS300.

 

I believe you have some sort of disorder in which you believe you are always right and that everyone should at all times agree with your "opinions". You are telling me what is worth "my" time and money.. and you are even upset about it. Lets go over this again. If I say that I like this car and want to put a little into it, then it is worth it to me. If you can't realize that there are other opinions that exist, then just stop talking.

What I want to do with my car, (MY CAR not yours), is to do a few modifications. My question is about tuning. Obviously you and no one on here has a tuning device or any experience with one because people like you down them and chase them away from the idea.

So as much as you think you are helping, (because I really do think you believe you are) You have done nothing but shove your way onto me. I will do what I want to do and not let some narcissistic forum bully tell me whats worth my money. You've given zero answers to my question, only tied to persuade me to your way. You don't have experience with a tuner and therefore don't know the answer to my question, which means you shouldn't even be responding to the thread.

 

First of all, it is a blatant lie that I didn't answer your questions. The only one I haven't yet is "how was it done" and I will go ahead answer that for you too: you call your local shop with a dyno and ask them what tuners they're familiar with. You go buy that, install it, bring the car to the dyno shop, hand them your money, and they tune your car for you.

Good luck.