bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

here at least drivetrain warranty is 10 years. So is that how long before his engine had to be replaced?

FatherTo1

You probably are right. My eyes have been opened to other options. After 25 years of owning/driving purely a Corolla, an Accord and Integra, then ES 300, RX 300, ES 330, RX 350, Tundra, Sequoia, Sienna, LS 400, LS 430, LS 460, Toyota/Lexus has lost me. Do automakers still care about brand loyalty? Maybe not. Now that you have me reflecting, being in a Lexus used to feel special to me. Now, I find their products disinteresting and boring. Some of that is changes in my own personal taste but I'm hardly alone.

Our neighbors, also longtime Lexus faithful, recently went car shopping. They considered Lexus, as well as BMW and Mercedes. They ultimately ordered a Model Y instead. I asked them, "Why?". They did not consult me beforehand and I was unaware they were buying a new car. They decided on their own, and shared not much has changed in the luxury arena since their last new car. A $70K X5 was more of the "same old experience" and made them question why they needed a new luxury ICE SUV? There is some sorrow in saying goodbye to Lexus and I can narrow it down to three main reasons:

1. Lack of innovation. Lexus has always been among the last to adopt/adapt new technology but it's become a glaring deficiency and liability, especially with younger buyers.
2. Their dealership service experience in our area has grown noticeably more snobbish over the years. If they want me to feel like they don't need me as a customer, then they have their wish. At least I found a great and trustworthy independent mechanic that I still go to for our 2006 ES 330 (but if the ES ever breaks down, Lexus won't be a top contender for a replacement car).
3. The Toyota/Lexus reputation for reliability has waned. Both of our revered LS 430 and LS 460 had coolant leaks that all our previous Toyota/Lexus vehicles never exprerienced. While both LSes were still great cars, neither upheld that bulletproof reputation that set the brand apart. Without their hallmark reliability, what else do they have to offer over the competition?

mbarron37

My wife’s’ first car was a Hyundai Excel hatchback. She has it from when she was 18 to about 22. We are old lol.

Anyway, I would gladly take any Hyundai built today over that junk from the early 90’s.

I really like what Hyundai and Kia are doing for styling. It suits me at least.

I wish Toyota would get off their butts and make a nice EV. I would buy immediately, assuming it was competitive.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

while i may be a recent "returner" to lexus ownership after a long absence, a couple of things here...

while lexus may not have EVs yet (and they should) and you being in california where teslas are so popular means lexus will definitely be less appealing but as far as innovation, it's worth remembering that toyota/lexus pioneered the whole hybrid car movement and today still offers probably the best hybrid cars on the market. the rav4 hybrid and rav4 PHEV sell like CRAZY. i 100% agree that toyota/lexus has been VERY lazy/reluctant with interior infotainment tech. they held out against apple carplay and android auto longer than about anyone. worth noting though that tesla doesn't offer those features AND THEY SHOULD.

obviously varies by dealer, but i don't think lexus is that concerned about your 15 year old ES or what you might replace it with. if you still like the ES though, the ES350 is a pretty terrific replacement. a tesla model 3 or Y may be impressive, but rather spartan and wholly different than an ES.

your anecdote of a couple of coolant leaks (and your LS is 8 years old) doesn't mean suddenly lexus has gotten sloppy on reliability. there's reason they still rank near or on top of every ranking.

the lexus i recently got (as you may know) is an LC500. i got it because i think it's unique, beautiful, very fun to drive while still being very comfortable on a longer drive, exquisitely engineered and made, and i expect it to be extremely reliable. there are few competitors i could imagine that come close. there's a reason why huge car enthusiast reviewers on youtube drool over it. is it perfect? no, it's a bit quirky in some ways, especially the infotainment and vehicle settings, although once setup it's not bad, and android auto / apple carplay make it much more ok. but i can't help but get a thrill every time i drive it.

but i do get your point that lexus needs to be less cautious, less behind on tech, invest more, etc. i predict at some point toyota/lexus is going to surprise the world in a big way with some new models.

Hameed

Great balanced post Paul!

I think I'm just as techy/geeky as you are and strangely enough I don't miss Andriod Auto in my MS. Once I get in and press the accelerator (gently or hard), I forget about what "should"be in the car lol. The honeymoon phase is not over even after 2 years 😄😄👍

Toys4RJill

WHAT A MINUTE BIT.....aren't things like sunroofs, birds eye view cameras, wireless charging, ambient lighting, adaptive headlights, heads up display, power closing trunks, heated steering wheel… missing on some Tesla''s too?

FatherTo1

Good points, Bit. We didn't buy every Lexus new, but the ES 330 was purchased new and the reason it has lasted 15 years is the engineering, materials, and build quality was superior to the competition back then. I had looked at 2013 and 2015 RXes a few years ago and there's definitely more plastic in some areas. Perhaps I am asking a little too much, expecting the best of both worlds.

A few years ago I was contemplating a Range Rover Sport or S-Class, which was significant to me. Both of those brands have worse reliability marks then Lexus, but the fact that I even considered them was indicative of Lexus not doing enough beyond the reputation for reliability or a smooth ride. Maybe someday Lexus will have my attention again.

Congrats on the LC 500. It is a striking car and I love the interior. That particular Lexus still feels special and embodies that Relentless Pursuit of Perfection. I can't find the video I once saw as a teenager. It's not the champagne glass commercial, but instead was a mini documentary that aired and showed a Lexus engine starting up with a nickel coin placed on its edge. The coin did not tip over when the engine started. I was just in awe of the engineering and smoothness from Lexus back then. Nowadays, I don't know what Lexus personifies and the identity is sort of lost to me. A legitimate question is, "why do I want a Lexus today"? And not just from an EV perspective. I agree, the RAV4 redesign was well-done and is popular. In the luxury space there's just a lot of good ICE alternatives to what Lexus offers because the Lexus designs are so old. Maybe Toyota has just grown too big with too many models to support and focus on.

FatherTo1

Progress has been made in some of those areas. The Model S did have a sunroof for several years before transitioning to all-glass roof. The Model S has ambient lighting and the Model Y we just ordered has dual wireless charging. The Model S and Y both have power closing trunks and heated steering wheels. But, yes, the birds eye camera and adaptive headlights are missing. However, Teslas have so many cameras that the bird's eye camera can probably be added through a software update. As for adaptive headlights, the Model 3 and Model Y Performance just received new matrix LED headlights that will offer more functionality.

EZZ

They are missing sunroofs because it just a big glass roof and Tesla refuses to HUD but that's a choice thing by Elon. Also no birds eye which is weird considering all the cameras but I hear they will include in future update to FSD (which I will never buy). The other stuff you listed now comes standard on 2021 models.

It's not like these things are high tech. It's just Tesla refused to include things in their cars that Elon doesn't like. He doesn't like CarPlay or HUD so we will never seen them.

kolokmee

The current Teslas will never get a proper bird's eye view, OTA or not. Their cameras are in the wrong location, and cannot cover the angles required. Biggest omission is the front camera on the nose/grille; and even the cameras in the B pillar don't look down far enough to make a useful 360-view stitch (not to mention the side mirrors get in the way).

As for the sunroof; it's pretty obvious it's a cost cutting issue. And likely a decision to save weight since the mechanisms for a roof opening is quite heavy.

FatherTo1

That is true and a good point. I don't felt like I am missing much without bird's eye view though as the current three reverse cameras provide a surround view from side mirror to side mirror. Forward of the mirrors, I can survey enough out the windshield with my eyes but I can't see something low directly in front of the bumper or near the front wheels like a true bird's eye view can provide.

Toys4RJill

Thanks. Was just curious as the claim Lexus is behind is not exactly true, that what prompted me to respond. I also see that Tesla is missing 4 wheel steering that Lexus has had for a long time. Cooling seats (not sure if any Tesla has them) but I think every Lexus does. Also, Lexus has some sort of climate concierge HVAV system, no idea what Tesla has. There also seems to be only a few colours for the exterior to pick from.

Anyways. Happy you ordered your Tesla. Hopefully it will bring you years of enjoyment

FatherTo1

Thank you, Jill! Pretty excited for our Y.

I didn’t know Lexus offered 4-wheel steering. Interesting. To my knowledge, Tesla doesn’t do all-wheel steering but does offer AWD on every model now.

I think the early Model X had cooled front seats but it didn’t work well and they stopped offering it. However, you can turn on the AC or heater from the Tesla app and have the cabin comfortable before you get in. Also, there is Cabin Overheat Protection so the interior never gets above 105 degrees anyways, just slightly warmer than body temperature.

With Kia, Ford, and other manufacturers putting in earnest effort to try new ideas, hopefully it spurs Lexus to get creative too. The Toyota/Lexus hybrid Synergy system is great but that’s 20-year-old technology now. It took them this long to finally offer it across the line-up. And it’s basically the same implementation across the board. They didn’t give it any different flavors other than the performance-biased LS 600hL. Clearly, Toyota/Lexus can innovate but they don’t do enough with it when they have a good idea.

Toys4RJill

Took 20+ years. However, with the hybrids, they are able to meet all of their CAFE obligations which thus allows them to continue to offer V8s in many of their models while their competitors no longer offer them. They are able to also do what Tesla does and sell their carbon credits. That is a pretty innovative way of doing business. At some point in Japan, the only way to get a ICE will be to buy a hybrid at some point. In the UK and UAE, hybrids dominate with 96% purchase rates in some countries. A hybrid is the final frontier for ICE motors and Toyota has that locked.

as for improvements, the newer LS and LC are multi stage models. Complete with full mechanical Torsen center diffs. Their other models also offer e-awd.

Toyota has also added plug in to some their hybrids. Next NX is all plug in for Europe so the sources say. The RAV4 Prime has been very well received

Pretty cool feature. I don’t think Toyota has that. My new 4R does not on the app. But I think Hyundai offers it.


I am sure when Lexus releases their first USA destination electric Lexus it will do well. Being first to market like Tesla is good, but entering late is also very advantageous as a companies can focus in and custom tailor exactly what the segment and industry wants.

My guess, they will offer their new crossover concept. It will nail the “Lexus Driving Signature” as they call it. It will offer all conceivable features like a Lexus currently offers. It will pass the emotional test with styling. Have advanced features such as steer by wire and solid state batteries. What it won’t be..is faster than a Tesla…nor will it has as long a range

You’re welcome. It will be interesting to hear about your experience with the new Tesla Y over the years

ST430

Epa certified for 310miles if range! Impressive! Good choose for new folks going into the EV fold!