8th generation ES!
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,509
Likes: 2,576
Pole Position
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,891
Likes: 837
From: Idaho
doesn't the battery charge itself like any other hybrid, therefore it's not empty. besides one could argue depending on use, you're carrying around all that engine and gas tank with you for no reason which in the case of a 20-30 mile per day/commute, you're not even using at ALL where at least the battery is ALWAYS being used.
one should focus on simply getting the best car for them.
i would guess 99% of us commute or take other short trips daily accounts for greater than 90% of our total driving miles (if not more). in such cases, a PHEV is the superior choice... IF it's cost-effective which in the case of Toyota it's not yet. but in terms of just being plain convenient, waking up to a full "tank" of electricity every morning is great. Why have the car sitting doing nothing while you sleep if it can instead re-fuel itself w/ electricity as you sleep. for a PHEV the trip to the gas station won't be as often.
one should focus on simply getting the best car for them.
i would guess 99% of us commute or take other short trips daily accounts for greater than 90% of our total driving miles (if not more). in such cases, a PHEV is the superior choice... IF it's cost-effective which in the case of Toyota it's not yet. but in terms of just being plain convenient, waking up to a full "tank" of electricity every morning is great. Why have the car sitting doing nothing while you sleep if it can instead re-fuel itself w/ electricity as you sleep. for a PHEV the trip to the gas station won't be as often.
edit: for reference, MSRP was about $1000 less than 2021 mid-range RX 450h.
Last edited by TechNut; Mar 14, 2025 at 02:41 PM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,509
Likes: 2,576
That 30% i wonder if that's just about the capacity in terms of kilowatt hours that the normal hybrid battery has. basically turning the car back into a normal hybrid, but with that extra 500 lbs of dead weight. i haven't really looked into it much as to how it works.
at one point i was looking at the BMW 3 series plug in. yes 30 miles of range, but heavier than a normal 3 series with worse handling. and if im not mistaken, those PHEV batteries take up extra space since you're taking a gas car apparatus and shoving a large battery into it. so you have space robbing exhaust pipe, fuel tank, AND a large PHEV battery that has to go somewhere. not to mention the electric motor. i can see why overall its a hard nut to crack. the concept is cool though. you can have your cake and eat it too... as long as you pay for said cake.
at one point i was looking at the BMW 3 series plug in. yes 30 miles of range, but heavier than a normal 3 series with worse handling. and if im not mistaken, those PHEV batteries take up extra space since you're taking a gas car apparatus and shoving a large battery into it. so you have space robbing exhaust pipe, fuel tank, AND a large PHEV battery that has to go somewhere. not to mention the electric motor. i can see why overall its a hard nut to crack. the concept is cool though. you can have your cake and eat it too... as long as you pay for said cake.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 1,358
From: IL
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 1,358
From: IL
That 30% i wonder if that's just about the capacity in terms of kilowatt hours that the normal hybrid battery has. basically turning the car back into a normal hybrid, but with that extra 500 lbs of dead weight. i haven't really looked into it much as to how it works.
at one point i was looking at the BMW 3 series plug in. yes 30 miles of range, but heavier than a normal 3 series with worse handling. and if im not mistaken, those PHEV batteries take up extra space since you're taking a gas car apparatus and shoving a large battery into it. so you have space robbing exhaust pipe, fuel tank, AND a large PHEV battery that has to go somewhere. not to mention the electric motor. i can see why overall its a hard nut to crack. the concept is cool though. you can have your cake and eat it too... as long as you pay for said cake.
at one point i was looking at the BMW 3 series plug in. yes 30 miles of range, but heavier than a normal 3 series with worse handling. and if im not mistaken, those PHEV batteries take up extra space since you're taking a gas car apparatus and shoving a large battery into it. so you have space robbing exhaust pipe, fuel tank, AND a large PHEV battery that has to go somewhere. not to mention the electric motor. i can see why overall its a hard nut to crack. the concept is cool though. you can have your cake and eat it too... as long as you pay for said cake.
The beauty of PHEVs lies in the reality that most of America lacks the charging infrastructure to make EVs practical for a large percentage of the people. Inevitably that investment will have to come from the public sector, and there's no indication whatsoever that the government will commit anytime soon to that kind of capital expenditure (maybe a poster here can appeal to his hero to reverse government cutbacks). In the meantime, PHEVs offer the best of both worlds: most of the fuel economy advantages of a hybrid, some of the no-gas range of an EV, and all the freedom from range anxiety that's still the big advantage of gas ICE cars in this big country of long distance trips.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,556
Likes: 3,397
From: NJ
All engineering is a compromise. I've been hearing this same criticism ever since the original Chevy Volt ("Why lug around the weight of an engine that's often not running!").
The beauty of PHEVs lies in the reality that most of America lacks the charging infrastructure to make EVs practical for a large percentage of the people. Inevitably that investment will have to come from the public sector, and there's no indication whatsoever that the government will commit anytime soon to that kind of capital expenditure (maybe a poster here can appeal to his hero to reverse government cutbacks). In the meantime, PHEVs offer the best of both worlds: most of the fuel economy advantages of a hybrid, some of the no-gas range of an EV, and all the freedom from range anxiety that's still the big advantage of gas ICE cars in this big country of long distance trips.
The beauty of PHEVs lies in the reality that most of America lacks the charging infrastructure to make EVs practical for a large percentage of the people. Inevitably that investment will have to come from the public sector, and there's no indication whatsoever that the government will commit anytime soon to that kind of capital expenditure (maybe a poster here can appeal to his hero to reverse government cutbacks). In the meantime, PHEVs offer the best of both worlds: most of the fuel economy advantages of a hybrid, some of the no-gas range of an EV, and all the freedom from range anxiety that's still the big advantage of gas ICE cars in this big country of long distance trips.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 1,358
From: IL
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,556
Likes: 3,397
From: NJ
precisely sales telling the story. In 2024, the RX 350h outsold the PHEV roughly 10-1. And the 350h was not far behind the ICE only trim.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 989
Likes: 555
From: PR
For me the only appeal for buying a new ES PHEV, given my local tax incentives, is the AWD and the extra 80+ HP. I'm not particularly intrigued by the new Hybrid System from the Camry being introduced in the next-gen ES 300h. Besides a hybrid AWD, it only offers 6-8+ MPG and 10-15+ HP, compared to the previous gen; which isn't interesting enough for me to consider upgrading. Also, after carefully evaluating my driving habits and needs, I’ve concluded that a full EV (regardless of brand) isn’t the right fit for me at this time. So maybe a 9th generation ES thread? 
Finally, I'm wondering just how many pages this thread will rack up before we see any official announcement. Anyone ready to guess?
Finally, I'm wondering just how many pages this thread will rack up before we see any official announcement. Anyone ready to guess?
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 989
Likes: 555
From: PR
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,295
Likes: 1,589
From: SE PA
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 4
Likes: 2
What is his YouTube account ?
Kirk Kreifels on YouTube is a former Lexus sales guy and has a huge Lexus and Toyota following. He said he had three sources that verified the 2026 ES will debut in EV ONLY and will follow months later with a hybrid. He’s not usually wrong but it’s still all unverified by Lexus.
