Just curious why PHEV is out of your list? It's essentially a hybrid with increased horsepower and a larger battery compared to an HEV, though smaller than that of a full EV. It also offers the option for plug-in wall charging, as seen in models like the RAV4 Prime and NX 450+.

 

And roughly $10K higher price - there might not be enough demand for it in the ES.

 

A PHEV would theoretically have the same issue of advancing battery tech later on.

300 mile range in my Tesla is more than enough anyway. I wake up with a "full tank" every morning and use only a wee bit of that. Almost never do I need the entire full range and even if I did, the supercharger network is vast and fast. So it's a non-issue. So I don't see my battery being out of date as a realistic issue. And even if it was, so what. I simply trade the car in for a new one.

And no the batteries don't require replacement in an accident. at least in Teslas. The body in white on a Tesla encases the battery in a super fortress. This is why the side structure of the Model Y is so incredibly extremely robust and high performing. In addition to the body in white itself (which is already a tank) there are two massive extruded aluminum sub structures protecting the battery and occupant compartment.

Put it this way if you get into a situation where you're damaging a Tesla battery, that same impact would total another car instantly, if not completely destroy its passengers.

Same goes for the giga castings.

Also for the record my insurance is dirt cheap on my Tesla. with high limits and low deds. but yes it is very expensive for younger people or people with accidents/tickets -- which i like as a gatekeep =) and yes repair costs on Teslas are generally higher. but tesla is fixing a lot of that with the Model Y refresh. I'm doing an analysis on the structure currently.

Feel free to run any more questions.

 

there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation, and misperceptions about EVs (mostly Tesla) out there among car guys.

 

One more thing -- sorry. One can still continue to believe such misinfo if they want. Fine by me. the way i see it, i keep more people out of the brand. there's already too many =/ So i try not to defend the brand actually and i let the misinfo fly and wink and smile in my own mind LOL. but some of you guys are cool so i'll try to help you out.

 

I agree, and for some, it works far better than any ICE engine. Don't get me wrong, I do like Teslas, and most of my friends who own them mostly love them as well.

I have no reason to doubt you; and maybe they are tougher than tanks. However, in my area, the top 3 insurance companies all charge higher premiums for Teslas or any EV for that matter. I was told the reason behind it was that the few accidents where EVs suffer battery damage, the cost of replacing the battery often renders the car a total loss. Misinfo? Perhaps. But the fact remains that, at least in my area, insurance costs for vehicles for same age, work commute distance, and residential zone are as follows: Tesla Model 3 LR > ES 300h > ES 350. And the ES is actually more expensive than the M3 LR.

 

In my area, only ICE and HEV vehicles are taxed, while PHEVs and EVs are exempt. Due to the exceptionally high tax rate on cars, the out-the-door price for a PHEV is often comparable to its ICE counterpart locally.
That said, you do make a valid point!

 

PHEV-s are OK if you drive 20-30 miles per day, but for everything longer they are useless. You are caring all that empty battery with you, for no good reason.

 

doesn't the battery charge itself like any other hybrid, therefore it's not empty. besides one could argue depending on use, you're carrying around all that engine and gas tank with you for no reason which in the case of a 20-30 mile per day/commute, you're not even using at ALL where at least the battery is ALWAYS being used.

one should focus on simply getting the best car for them.

i would guess 99% of us commute or take other short trips daily accounts for greater than 90% of our total driving miles (if not more). in such cases, a PHEV is the superior choice... IF it's cost-effective which in the case of Toyota it's not yet. but in terms of just being plain convenient, waking up to a full "tank" of electricity every morning is great. Why have the car sitting doing nothing while you sleep if it can instead re-fuel itself w/ electricity as you sleep. for a PHEV the trip to the gas station won't be as often.

 

In theory, yes. But in practice, some of them work just fine. For example, the RAV4 / NX PHEV is widely reported to deliver both smoother, quieter operation and faster performance than the regular hybrid.

 

All of them work fine but when the battery is empty than the car works as a regular hybrid, except the fuel economy is worse than on a regular hybrid because of the weight.

 

guess it depends on phev vs hybrid:

drive less than 40 miles per day, advantage phev.

drive between 40 and 100 miles per day or more, advantage normal hybrid.

 

nothing he speculates on is original and mostly secondhand.

we already know there will be a BEV of the ES called Es500e. It will use the same EV drivetrain as the Rz500e.

But also the HEV which is another es300h on the Camry hybrid drivetrain to be announced Oct 2025 to be available in 2026.

These has been in development since 2012.

 

Where did you get the October 2025 date from?

 

the payback on a phev has to be tough to make back unless there's some tax benefit that offsets the incremental $10k or so.