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Old Dec 9, 2018 | 12:34 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by TechNut


I agree that the Android statistics are a worldwide figure and don’t really relate to developed countries. The statistic I would be more interested in would be the number of luxury car shoppers in countries where Lexus is popular that use Android.

For Toyota/Lexus this is very likely a business decision. I imagine licensing fees are a big part of this debate from Lexus’ perspective - and having dealt with some of Google’s outrageous fees, I can understand why it isn’t a simple decision for the manufacturer. It isn’t merely about building cars that can be all things to all people, but also making them affordable. This is actually why I support subscription services. The manufacturer shouldn’t be paying licensing to both vendors and passing that on to every buyer, when the odds are good that most buyers just only want one or the other. If these were licensed based on a subscription, the customer that wants both could simply purchase both subscriptions and the buyer that doesn’t want either doesn’t have to subsidize those that do when he or she purchases a Lexus automobile.

My personal experience is in a technology field rather than the automotive industry, so this is very speculative on my part. If anyone has any inside information and can confirm how the manufacturer procures these services please do share.
I'd also like to see those statistics. I think we can use the United States as an example. The United States is a relatively rich country and I'm pretty sure it's still the #1 market for Lexus. In the United States the single company with the most phone sales is Apple with about 38% of the market on average over the last 5 quarters. The rest is Android (from many manufacturers). Most of the Android phones sold in the United States are higher end phones that are priced similar to the iPhone. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to assume that more Lexus owners use an iPhone over Android but not significantly more than Android. It's close enough to make supporting both worth it for car makers. It's certainly not 70% iPhone like someone previously said.

As far as why Toyota/Lexus doesn't have Android Auto it has stated "privacy concerns" as the reason.

Subscription service for what? Apple and Google don't charge customers anything for CarPlay or Android Auto and the car manufacturer isn't really providing any service. For the car manufacturer it's really more about hardware to support the software.
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Old Dec 9, 2018 | 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
Subscription service for what? Apple and Google don't charge customers anything for CarPlay or Android Auto and the car manufacturer isn't really providing any service. For the car manufacturer it's really more about hardware to support the software.
I can’t recall which brand charges an annual subscription, but I believe it was Car & Driver that commented about it in a recent issue. I won’t speculate as to Apple CarPlay since I have no experience with their commercial business, but from my past experience on the commercial side of Google, I would find it hard to believe they don’t charge a license fee. Google is in business to make money. I was recently stunned by their pricing for commercial services - perhaps so that they can provide such a range of free services on the consumer side of their business. I would just be shocked if they aren’t charging a licensing fee, but to be fair, this is speculation on my part.

We we may have to agree to disagree, but I cannot fathom Google just giving this away to auto manufacturers, any more than I can see Apple providing it without monetizing the service.
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Old Dec 9, 2018 | 06:08 PM
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[QUOTE=jimv1983;10379500]Most of the Android phones sold in the United States are higher end phones that are priced similar to the iPhone.[quote]

Link please? All published data is diametrically opposed to your statement, the strong majority of Android phones sold in the US are low end garbage. Would be interested in seeing anything credible that contradicts all of the convential wisdom.

I agree Lexus will support Android Auto. Poverty is the main reason for Android use, but a few buy an expensive Pixel to prove they are !!!DIFFERENT!!! or have some narrow edge case use (do not understand/trust cloud storage, red-mist hatred of Apple, need access to Warez, etc), more power to them. But Lexus makes business decisions, they probably stay out of holy wars.

The privacy concerns are real, Google Play is basically a malware repository but folks go there willingly so I think that’s a false objection on Lexus’ part. Android users know what they are using and literally do not care.

Last edited by CashGap; Dec 9, 2018 at 06:24 PM.
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Old Dec 9, 2018 | 06:41 PM
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[QUOTE=CashGap;10379797]
[QUOTE=jimv1983;10379500]Most of the Android phones sold in the United States are higher end phones that are priced similar to the iPhone.

Link please? All published data is diametrically opposed to your statement, the strong majority of Android phones sold in the US are low end garbage. Would be interested in seeing anything credible that contradicts all of the convential wisdom.

I agree Lexus will support Android Auto. Poverty is the main reason for Android use, but a few buy an expensive Pixel to prove they are !!!DIFFERENT!!! or have some narrow edge case use (do not understand/trust cloud storage, red-mist hatred of Apple, need access to Warez, etc), more power to them. But Lexus makes business decisions, they probably stay out of holy wars.

The privacy concerns are real, Google Play is basically a malware repository but folks go there willingly so I think that’s a false objection on Lexus’ part. Android users know what they are using and literally do not care.
Geez, what BS is all of this? Who gives a flyin' (*&% what phone anybody uses. Poverty? Man O' man some prejudice showing here. Time to move on... BTW I bought a refurbished Samsung S7...
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Old Dec 9, 2018 | 09:18 PM
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[left][QUOTE=bc6152;10379816][QUOTE=CashGap;10379797]
Originally Posted by jimv1983
Most of the Android phones sold in the United States are higher end phones that are priced similar to the iPhone.

Geez, what BS is all of this? Who gives a flyin' (*&% what phone anybody uses. Poverty? Man O' man some prejudice showing here. Time to move on... BTW I bought a refurbished Samsung S7...
EXACTLY!!!

Android sales are penny pincher refurbs. No need to pretend, VERY few Lexus buyers can’t afford a a basic iphone!
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Old Dec 10, 2018 | 12:27 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by TechNut

I can’t recall which brand charges an annual subscription, but I believe it was Car & Driver that commented about it in a recent issue. I won’t speculate as to Apple CarPlay since I have no experience with their commercial business, but from my past experience on the commercial side of Google, I would find it hard to believe they don’t charge a license fee. Google is in business to make money. I was recently stunned by their pricing for commercial services - perhaps so that they can provide such a range of free services on the consumer side of their business. I would just be shocked if they aren’t charging a licensing fee, but to be fair, this is speculation on my part.

We we may have to agree to disagree, but I cannot fathom Google just giving this away to auto manufacturers, any more than I can see Apple providing it without monetizing the service.
You are probably right that Apple and Google do charge car makers some kind of licensing fee but not in any subscription type of thing. That wouldn't really make sense as there isn't really any on going service being offered. As far as the subscription charge you mentioned I'm not sure what that is. The best I can think of is the new subscription service some car makers are starting to offer. It's basically like an open-ended lease that lets you you swap cars more often, includes insurance and I think even maintenance.

Originally Posted by CashGap
Link please? All published data is diametrically opposed to your statement, the strong majority of Android phones sold in the US are low end garbage. Would be interested in seeing anything credible that contradicts all of the convential wisdom.

I agree Lexus will support Android Auto. Poverty is the main reason for Android use, but a few buy an expensive Pixel to prove they are !!!DIFFERENT!!! or have some narrow edge case use (do not understand/trust cloud storage, red-mist hatred of Apple, need access to Warez, etc), more power to them. But Lexus makes business decisions, they probably stay out of holy wars.

The privacy concerns are real, Google Play is basically a malware repository but folks go there willingly so I think that’s a false objection on Lexus’ part. Android users know what they are using and literally do not care.
That simply isn't true. Published data says that Android is the top choice for phones in poverty markets. That's not the same thing as saying people only buy Android phones because they are in poverty. The best selling Android phones in the United States are the Galaxy S9/S9+ and the Note 9 both from Samsung. While I don't care for them (I don't like the customizations that Samsung makes to Android) they certainly aren't low end garbage. Many other companies including LG, Google and OnePlus make phones with almost identical hardware to the Samsung flagship phones. They aren't "low end garbage" either. There are many reasons people might choose Android over iPhone other than poverty. The huge development community that is possible because of how customizable Android is. With Android you can get pretty much whatever you want if you are willing to tweak it a bit unlike iPhones which you can only do what Apple allows. There are also people like me that simply don't like iPhones because we can't stand stand the software. I HATE iOS. I wouldn't by an iPhone at ANY price. Others chose Android because there are options that aren't absurdly priced and that isn't a matter of "poverty" that's a matter of not wanting to be ripped off. The cheapest iPhone XS is $1,000. That's absurd for a phone that costs about $400 to make. And by the way, Samsung's phones are just as absurdly priced. The top end Note 9 is an absurd $1,150. If you want to give Apple $600+ in profit that's up to you. In February I'll be getting my 2019 ES 300h UL at a price of about $50,000 so I can certainly afford an iPhone but I still refuse to pay such an absurd price for a phone. And even if I was willing to pay such a price (I am certainly able to) I still wouldn't because I don't WANT and iPhone. I'd actually pay MORE for an Android phone than an iPhone. That's how much I don't like iOS. I have a Pixel 2 XL and I wouldn't EVER swap it for an iPhone.

Originally Posted by CashGap

EXACTLY!!!

Android sales are penny pincher refurbs. No need to pretend, VERY few Lexus buyers can’t afford a a basic iphone!


A brand new Galaxy S9+ starts at $850. The Note 9 starts at $1,000. The Pixel 3 XL starts at $750. None of those are "penny pincher refurbs". Even the "budget" OnePlus 6T (which is basically the same hardware as the Galaxy S9+ for less) starts at $550 isn't a "penny pincher". You have this ridiculous idea that anyone that doesn't have an iPhone is in that position because they can't afford it. That simply isn't true. There are many of us that simply don't WANT an iPhone. I could be a BILLIONAIRE and still wouldn't ever buy an iPhone because i don't WANT one.

Last edited by jimv1983; Dec 10, 2018 at 12:44 AM.
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Old Dec 10, 2018 | 04:28 AM
  #22  
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The proof is in the reviews. Every time Samsung and Apple have come out with new phones and they have been reviewed the Samsung is the top rated. This has been the case for years. Consumer Reports, Cnet, PC magazine etc. My Samsung S8 cost $400 at Best Buy at the time and beat the Iphone in every review. A true no brainer!!!
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Old Dec 10, 2018 | 06:29 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by TechNut
I can’t recall which brand charges an annual subscription, but I believe it was Car & Driver that commented about it in a recent issue.
It's BMW. Like Lexus, they do not offer Android Auto. They do offer CarPlay, but you have to pay a yearly subscription to BMW to access it.
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Old Dec 10, 2018 | 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Freds430
The proof is in the reviews. Every time Samsung and Apple have come out with new phones and they have been reviewed the Samsung is the top rated. This has been the case for years. Consumer Reports, Cnet, PC magazine etc. My Samsung S8 cost $400 at Best Buy at the time and beat the Iphone in every review. A true no brainer!!!
I paid $1 for my S6 - bought it right after the S7 came out.
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Old Dec 11, 2018 | 11:16 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by mikemu30
Android is simply a better platform IMO. For the most part you can do anything with Android that IOS does but not vice versa.
I don't think any OS is going to be bug free, or not have issues.

I prefer Android because it gives me more flexibility. As you alluded to.

I'm not going to judge someone by what phone they prefer. Prior to my current phone, I had a smart phone, but it was neither Android nor IOS. I liked how minimilistic it was, with no bloatware.

I could also connect it to the car for calls or have it read texts.

As jimv1983 pointed out though, it's probably about licensing with Android Auto.
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Old Dec 13, 2018 | 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
I'd also like to see those statistics. I think we can use the United States as an example. The United States is a relatively rich country and I'm pretty sure it's still the #1 market for Lexus. In the United States the single company with the most phone sales is Apple with about 38% of the market on average over the last 5 quarters. The rest is Android (from many manufacturers). Most of the Android phones sold in the United States are higher end phones that are priced similar to the iPhone. I don't think it's totally unreasonable to assume that more Lexus owners use an iPhone over Android but not significantly more than Android. It's close enough to make supporting both worth it for car makers. It's certainly not 70% iPhone like someone previously said.

As far as why Toyota/Lexus doesn't have Android Auto it has stated "privacy concerns" as the reason.

Subscription service for what? Apple and Google don't charge customers anything for CarPlay or Android Auto and the car manufacturer isn't really providing any service. For the car manufacturer it's really more about hardware to support the software.
It’s NOT licensing fees. https://9to5google.com/2014/01/23/go...bile-services/

It’s the major security concerns that come with Android, and the extreme demographic mismatch between luxury car buyers and ‘Droid users.

I still expect Lexus to add Android Auto. But the reason they delay has nothing to do with license fees.
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Old Dec 13, 2018 | 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CashGap


It’s NOT licensing fees. https://9to5google.com/2014/01/23/go...bile-services/

It’s the major security concerns that come with Android, and the extreme demographic mismatch between luxury car buyers and ‘Droid users.

I still expect Lexus to add Android Auto. But the reason they delay has nothing to do with license fees.
The comment wasn't saying that licensing fees were the cause of not having Android Auto. It was a discussion of if having Android Auto had any license fees. Security concerns are the same thing I've heard (as I mentioned in a previous comment). As for that link, that isn't about Android Auto. Android Auto and Google Mobile Services isn't the same thing.

Again, you are wrong about there being an extreme demographics mismatch between luxury car buyers and Android users. Just because Android happens to be the "platform of poverty" doesn't mean it is ONLY that.
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Old Dec 14, 2018 | 10:23 AM
  #28  
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Back to the original post - any chance we will get an Android Auto update for our 2019 ES?
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Old Dec 14, 2018 | 10:26 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mikemu30
Back to the original post - any chance we will get an Android Auto update for our 2019 ES?
I've never heard of any car that didn't come with Android Auto (or Apple CarPlay) getting it as a software update so I'm guessing that the 2019 ES probably won't get Android Auto. At least not on cars already built. It will probably, at best, be all 2019s after a certain production date.
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Old Dec 14, 2018 | 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
I've never heard of any car that didn't come with Android Auto (or Apple CarPlay) getting it as a software update so I'm guessing that the 2019 ES probably won't get Android Auto. At least not on cars already built. It will probably, at best, be all 2019s after a certain production date.
Until Mazda did this, I'd never heard of it either. I have a couple of friends who literally danced a jig when they read this!!!

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18...ounced-in-2018
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