Lol... I had the Windows 95 Chicago beta as well....BUT I go a little farther back in the Windows for Workgroup (aka 3.11) beta....lol

For me, I took baby steps as well going to first a Model 3 RWD (awesome car...wish it had more power as the lower weight and rwd makes it more fun then the AWD LR).

I even considered the F150 and Rivians, which I put a deposit down but now have cancelled.

I have made a few trips to LA and Tahoe in my Tesla's and there were no issues, and in fact was one of the most relaxing trips I've had, because we werent so rushed and could plan longer breaks around charging

I do realize that EVs are not for everyone (towing, cold weather, etc), but in Cali, it makes 100% sense especially with our infrastructure already in place.

The thing that worries me the most later isn't the availability of EVs, it's access to cheap high HP EVs (1000+) by kids and other folks who can hardly drive Camry's today. Scary thought, but it will be the new reality soon....

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I'm 55 years old, so I go all the way back to DOS LOL. Windows 3.1 was my first version of Windows I played with.

I totally get people being nervous about EV's, and yes, at this point they are not for everyone and every situation. There are some trade-off's you have to make like lower range compared to their gasoline counterparts, and taking longer to charge on longer trips. For me the trade-offs are worth it, but for other it may not be, so I don't judge. I'm also holding on to our 2013 Sienna, as there is nothing EV equivalent to it yet. But once they come out with a 400 mile range minivan with 800v charging, bye bye Sienna

 

BYD, NIO, XPANG are all in Germany, Austria, etc, not yet here in my neck of woods.

Huge problem - right now they think they are luxury brands, and their vehicles are priced crazy high. I assume BYD will eventually change that, but $20k more expensive than Tesla is just funny. They sell in tens in several countries.

MG is doing much better, as they have gas, plugins and BEVs. Their BEVs are also cheaper than anything else on market, but not by a lot.

I think all of these companies will have huge problems when Model 2 comes out. If it ends up being like €27-28k, it will be cheapest BEV on market except for something stupid like Dacia or Twingo.

Main problem is that everyone is trying to position themselves as luxury maker, which does not work. Resale market for Chinese BEV vehicles does not exist right now, you have to kind of give it away.

 

If they can make Model S LR around 70k like before, it would work. Right now difference between 40k and 85k is just huge.

BMW 3 series - 44k
BMW 5 series - 56k
BMW 7 series - 96k

7 is not a seller, 5 and 3 are.

 

following up on this, now that the u.s. tax credit info confusion seems to have cleared, bmw apparently gets no credits for their vehicles and tesla does.

so my example above means a base model 3 is just $34,500 after tax credit, while a base i4 remains $52,000. anyone would need their head examined to buy the i4 for 50% more than the model 3.

 

This is slightly inaccurate, as there is a lease loophole that they can utilize for any of their EVs. Seeing as like 90% of bimmer owners lease their cars, it would behoove them to pass it on to the customer (as Huyndai does).

They could conceivable do a deal where it slightly discounted say 4.5k and combine it with the 7500 rebate and blow it out for 40k lease with a 30k residual. Could easily see a drive off fees only at $399/month lease on it, which is very attractive for the BMW rondel cachet....best part is bmw lease have buyouts, u like Tesla's. Good for those dipping their toes into the EV pool for the first time and have only short term commitments...

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For the "real" bmw shoppers, they would probably go for the i4 m50 priced at ~$70k (mine was before). A comparable M3 performance *was* $63k before the price cuts, so it was somewhat attractive with the prior $7500 pre Biden EV credit for BMW (that anyone can qualify for).

With Tesla M3P now going for $53k, that changes everything. If u qualify, that's $45.5k vs $70k. Lease wise, even a 5k discount and 7.5k credit would put capitalized cost at $57.5k. Still heavily favors the M3P, unless you don't qualify for the rebate, then it's 53k vs 57.5k. I had an i4 m50 on order but my dealer didn't want to budge on msrp so I cancelled .

 

i thought the bmw ev's no longer qualify for any of the credits?

 

There is a loophole that any mfg can exploit, but was intended for businesses.....

https://electrek.co/2023/04/05/how-t...it-by-leasing/

 

More price cuts. 3 now starts at $39,990. Y starts at $46,990.

 

very interesting, thanks. since my leased car today (suv) is for business, this might be an option next year.

with tax credit, the 3 starts at 32.5k. while the i4 starts at 52k. with above if someone's leasing the bmw for business it could be 44.5k so still 12k (37%) more than the model 3.

 

well shoot looks like i got this wrong too because the base model 3 now only qualifies for half the tax credit (3750) under the new rules.

so model 3 starts at $40K-3750 or $36250 and bmw i4 purchased starts at 52000.

talk about musical chairs on pricing, lol.

 

model 3 lease is $399 a month (with a chunk down payment though).



for some reason bmw's site doesn't work for me right now trying to get a lease payment for the base i4 (edrive35) but for edrive40, the lease is nearly double.

 

Ya, but the leases aren't comparable.

Tesla doesn't allow u to own th car afterwards so there's no equity, and you can't negotiate.

BMW can be negotiated and you have the option of ourching the car afterwards. You just have to really haggle with the dealer to make them drop their prices.

Having said that, Tesla dropped their process on the base 3 again:

 

More Tesla cuts for he base 3 and Y:

https://insideevs.com/news/663118/us...rices-april19/



I had a hunch the bae 3 would given the tax credit, but didn't think the y would given they are hard to get already (and they had price increases recently as well).