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With EVs - you need to follow the $$$.
The country that stands the most to gain is China while they have zero to gain if ICE remains. They continue to “payoff/lobby” politicians for their cause.
Just guess where all these batteries will be made lol
Well to be fair, both my Samsung fridge's and TV's are made in China. Both my Dell computers I use for work are made in China. My OnePlus is made in China, and all those shiny iPhones, Samsung and Pixels people are carrying around are made in China. It's just the reality of today. I try not to get myself to stressed about it.
At least Tesla is 100 percent an American company, although they do produce some of their Model Y's destined for Europe in Shanghai. That makes economic sense since they are closer to Europe
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Apr 15, 2023 at 01:49 PM.
Well to be fair, both my Samsung fridge's and TV's are made in China. Both my Dell computers I use for work are made in China. My OnePlus is made in China, and all those shiny iPhones, Samsung and Pixels people are carrying around are made in China. It's just the reality of today. I try not to get myself to stressed about it.
At least Tesla is 100 percent an American company, although they do produce some of their Model Y's destined for Europe in Shanghai. That makes economic sense since they are closer to Europe
China is doing what is best for them and you can’t expect consumers to choose products based on where they are produced - most just buy what is the best value.
If you take a trip to middle America - you tell me if those iPhones or Samsung tvs were worth it, then look at China in the 80s compared to how Beijing and Shanghai look now. Huge difference in a fairly short amount of time.
Tesla is an amazing company and its a miracle that they survived. Elon Musk deserves huge credit for them surviving and now becoming one of the top automakers. Unfortunately they need to rely on China to continue their growth just like Apple does.
BTW if Covid didn’t teach US a lesson about having domestic manufacturing then nothing will at this point.
China is doing what is best for them and you can’t expect consumers to choose products based on where they are produced - most just buy what is the best value.
If you take a trip to middle America - you tell me if those iPhones or Samsung tvs were worth it, then look at China in the 80s compared to how Beijing and Shanghai look now. Huge difference in a fairly short amount of time.
Tesla is an amazing company and its a miracle that they survived. Elon Musk deserves huge credit for them surviving and now becoming one of the top automakers. Unfortunately they need to rely on China to continue their growth just like Apple does.
BTW if Covid didn’t teach US a lesson about having domestic manufacturing then nothing will at this point.
I get what you are saying, I feel for people who live in regions that benefit less economically, and was recently in the Middle East in areas where there is virtually no infrastructure, and people literally live day by day selling trinkets just to get by. Trust me, the people in Middle America are 1000 times better off. I count my blessings everyday.
As long as China has the cheap skilled labor and built out factories, companies are going to rely on them to keep prices down and profits up. But the way things are moving, we may be butting heads with them very soon, which will not benefit anyone, living on either coasts, nor those living in Middle America
Many EV cars won't qualify for the full 7500 tax credit tomorrow. This will be interesting to see what mfg. Do to make up for the tax incentives.
Ps - thanks to @situman , I helped my neighbor buy a model 3 as her first EV ($41k - 7500 tax rebate) based on that discussion about cheap Teslas I had it in hand when she asked me! Thank you bruh, for helping another "rich" person! 😁😁 Will post pictures later when she picks it up!
Many EV cars won't qualify for the full 7500 tax credit tomorrow. This will be interesting to see what mfg. Do to make up for the tax incentives.
Ps - thanks to @situman , I helped my neighbor buy a model 3 as her first EV ($41k - 7500 tax rebate) based on that discussion about cheap Teslas I had it in hand when she asked me! Thank you bruh, for helping another "rich" person! 😁😁 Will post pictures later when she picks it up!
BMW is u leashing quite a number of EVs now, with the upcoming i5 soon to appear as well!
Tesla's main challenge (in th US at least) imho will be from the Germans, at least in the 75k+ class. They've shown that they can pivot quickly to market competition (see Lexus GS400) and I'm looking forward to a proper EV M model soon!
BMW is u leashing quite a number of EVs now, with the upcoming i5 soon to appear as well!
Tesla's main challenge (in th US at least) imho will be from the Germans, at least in the 75k+ class. They've shown that they can pivot quickly to market competition (see Lexus GS400) and I'm looking forward to a proper EV M model soon!
so far those are smaller sellers. I am excited for i5, lets see what does that do, or whatever they want to release on dedicated EV platform.
Hopefully Tesla will continue dropping price of S and X, they are not a good value in Europe, even with all the price drops, it is €111k for Model S Long Range, used to be €90k in 2021 with facelift introduced and before all the price increases.
Especially S, needs a bit more pizzas to justify really high price. Luxury features like massage seats, auto open/close doors (from X), maybe hud, etc, etc. It is a good car, but outside of acceleration, it is very cold in execution.
There are now 1000+ Model X in inventory, up from 400+ last quarter. I think they will drop price on them soon.
Having said that, I hope Tesla stops trying to push X and S to larger adoption and makes it more boutique like an AMG / M division kind of cars, with mainstream Y/3 / Cybertruck. This would also let them focus on quality and customization.
Originally Posted by spwolf
so far those are smaller sellers. I am excited for i5, lets see what does that do, or whatever they want to release on dedicated EV platform.
Hopefully Tesla will continue dropping price of S and X, they are not a good value in Europe, even with all the price drops, it is €111k for Model S Long Range, used to be €90k in 2021 with facelift introduced and before all the price increases.
Especially S, needs a bit more pizzas to justify really high price. Luxury features like massage seats, auto open/close doors (from X), maybe hud, etc, etc. It is a good car, but outside of acceleration, it is very cold in execution.
There are now 1000+ Model X in inventory, up from 400+ last quarter. I think they will drop price on them soon.
Having said that, I hope Tesla stops trying to push X and S to larger adoption and makes it more boutique like an AMG / M division kind of cars, with mainstream Y/3 / Cybertruck. This would also let them focus on quality and customization.
well, they need something in between then.
Right now around here, Model 3 Performance is €54k and Model S LR is €111k.
Difference is too large. Base S needs to go back to 70-75k and it will sell better.
When you look at the price, it actually sells good for 100k-130k vehicle. But volume is too small when we compare it to midsize luxury sedan class.
model 2 - $30k
Model 3 - $40k
Model Y - $50k
Cybertruck - $70k
S - $80k
X - $90k
All base models of course.
As a European, what is your feelings on BYD?
Originally Posted by spwolf
well, they need something in between then.
Right now around here, Model 3 Performance is €54k and Model S LR is €111k.
Difference is too large. Base S needs to go back to 70-75k and it will sell better.
When you look at the price, it actually sells good for 100k-130k vehicle. But volume is too small when we compare it to midsize luxury sedan class.
Back to EV Price news (weird how anti EV folks could care about it 🤷
obviously if someone is anti ev they won't care about the price, so not sure your point.
BMW introduces the i7 M70 which I'm sure will be in the $150k range.
BMW is u leashing quite a number of EVs now, with the upcoming i5 soon to appear as well!
introducing cars this ugly is just sad...
Tesla's main challenge (in th US at least) imho will be from the Germans, at least in the 75k+ class.
so about prices, i just looked up the cheapest bmw i4 (3 competitor) and it's $52K. the cheapest model 3 is $42K. the tesla has much better range, but the bmw is nicer inside. neither point is surprising. not clear to me how they're competitors if one is 25% more expensive than the other but i'm sure some will cross shop the 2.
as for over $75K, as you know the model s and x are not luxurious, but they appeal to some such as yourself based on performance and image (and the S is a traditionally great looking car). but they still sell in tiny numbers relatively, and tesla is really all about the mass market, not niche products, so i don't think they could care less bout bmw. bmw is a niche car maker, traditionally appealing with style and performance, but it seems they now have neither in any great way over competitors. tesla's competitors are vw, byd, hyundai, and theoretically ford and gm although they produce in relatively small numbers.
tesla is focused on a very utilitarian truck, a refreshed model 3 (and y no doubt) and a cheap model 2. bmw/mercedes will have no answers to any of those, instead plugging 'blingy' and gimmicky cars at high prices.
And you deserve a bud-light on me! 🥂 Thanks for continuing to evangelize the inevitable!
We all know EVs is the future, maybe. Your friend qualified for EV credits, all the power to him/her/it and enjoy it in good health. Some people wants to be be first in line and buy beta products and some people wants to wait until products mature a bit more and the infrastructure is ready for mass adoption. The road to EV adoption will be bumpy and there are people like me that dont feel like riding on that when ICEs are still smooth sailing.
We all know EVs is the future, maybe. Your friend qualified for EV credits, all the power to him/her/it and enjoy it in good health. Some people wants to be be first in line and buy beta products and some people wants to wait until products mature a bit more and the infrastructure is ready for mass adoption. The road to EV adoption will be bumpy and there are people like me that dont feel like riding on that when ICEs are still smooth sailing.
And this makes total sense to me. You have a good 10 years. For better or worse, I've mostly been an early adopter. It's usually worked out for me, except that time I decided to jump into installing Windows 98 Beta....
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Apr 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM.
, BMW introduces the i7 M70 which I'm sure will be in the $150k range...
