Completely agree. Not just styling, styling he likes = to sales volume.

I know a lot of hugely successful vehicles that I think are hideous. I've even bought cars I thought were not great looking.

 

Except the tail lights, how can we differentiate the two? If we chop the tails off, I wonder how many (non owners) can be sure it's one or the other. In any case... I think if we have to compare LS with ES, that's pretty sad. I see ... one Black F Sports around me. I see more LC and LX. For these groups mostly just German and British. The public, at least around me, certainly don't have much interest in this car. Plenty RX, ES, GX btw. I'm a long time Lexus owner and like the previous gens a lot when they are distinctly different from ES. I'm not sure about A6/A8 but I can always tell a 7 from a 5. IMO, S class is and has been the winner for luxury sedans.

 

I think you got the message wrong... I don't compare ES to LS. And no one should (have to). How the two resemble is the problem (for LS) for being at least twice as expensive.

 

For one, you can definitely tell the RWD nature of the LS over the cab-forward ES based on proportions alone. The size and presence of the LS500 are not something that can be ignored in a parking lot unless it's surrounded by similarly large vehicle, whereas an ES would get lost in a see of Camry's.

Of course, the downside of the LS and its styling is that it comes at the cost of interior space, which is actually less than the ES's, and probably one of the reasons its sales dropped so hard.

 

Exactly, "the car I like the looks of best is guaranteed to sell best" is just absurd to claim no matter how it's spun.

 

I don’t think the ES and LS looking similar in that specific shot is an issue. In person, you don’t mistake one for the other, and the Germans have had smaller cheaper cars that look just like their flagships for a long time.

 

It’s called “internal” polling, and the results of these surveys are kept hidden.
The bigger the poll/survey, the more costly.

Without concrete quantitative polling data, styling is a very subjective and qualitative matter.
My opinion on why a model sells or not - is just my opinion.
Your opinion on why a model sells or not - is just your opinion too.
Steve, you are trying to override someone else’s opinion with your very own opinion - rather than just giving your own opinion - that is the key.

Never assume and exaggerate.
No one ever said that styling is directly proportional to sales, but styling certainly helps sales.

 

These cars are so radically designed, and smaller inside because of it. Another reason the high end SUVs and trucks sell so well and they're not getting dumped over high gas prices this time. Space = luxury. Very simple, to me at least. I love that my LS430 is huge inside, for a car. The amount of especially front leg, shoulder, and headroom border on ridiculous in a 430.

 

I completely agree with the 430 assessment. As I've said before, they just don't make 'em like they used to.

 

It's not a segment-wide issue, just the LS500. The 7, S, A8, and G90 all have around 110 cubic feet of interior volume while the LS has 99- 1 less than an ES.

 

How long are all of those cars? LS430 is 196 inches.

I'm just saying for a 196 inch long car, an LS430 is positively huge inside. I remember the first time riding in one in the front, the sheer space was ridiculous and imparted a big sense of luxury. Like you're in a whole different class of car (well, you are lol). The amount of room inside is crazy especially considering it's not a long car. Nothing like modern luxury sedans today, at least.

 

They're all around a foot longer.

You're right, the LS430 is phenomenally well-packaged. But that came at the expense of looks, because it ended up being a very tall car. The LS500 meanwhile is going after the low-roof "4 door coupe" look which always cuts into cabin space. The legroom is also not that great because it came at the expense of the longer hood, again for styling.

 

I personally wish they would do an update to the 430. Update meaning produce this exact car and specs for a year. That way those who have their perfect car won't have one that's 20 years old.

 

The 430 is huge inside, my SWB 460 still feels quite small to me even after having for several months. Not cramped or anything, but doesn't feel like a full size/truck class vehicle inside like the 430 did

 

The pre-refresh 430s look dorky, I agree. But post facelift, one of the prettiest. These, to me, are gorgeous: Yes the car is still tall but they fixed it.




Also about the size, they aren't long cars but they are substantial and have presence even all these years later. They're still bossy looking, high end looking cars. Aging perfectly almost.