Same price tier since you brought up racing classes. When racing it's usually one person driving. Since you refuse to compare the 3 to accord in roles it's compatible in why not? Also, again, do you track your car?

 

Than you haven't seen the reviews for the Hyundai Ioniq 5, the Kia EV6, the Mustang Mach e or the Polestar 2. Or the F-150 Lightning if you like trucks. All got great reviews, all with models starting under $40K

 

Counter my main points then. The 3P is the ONLY one with a good price to performance ratio. Both of you haven't addressed anything I've mentioned about price at all vs what you actually get as an overall package not just 0-60 of the best version of the 3 and it's short track/autocross performance while also insisting track times don't matter.

If someone cares about track times they WILL be cross shopping against the ZL1 and if they don't care about performance at all they WILL cross shot against the cars I mentioned. You keep flip flopping as to what people are shopping for. If I focus on practical and overall actually cost you bring up 0-60 and autocross that those people will never do, if I bring up track focused cars you say it's unfair since the 3 is a family car.

What is the use case we are discussing? I was under the impression it's the actual costs to buy, run, and how much the difference is for actually normal every day use. The fact is the gas car can drive 120-160k miles pending on situation/EV it's compared against before reaching the same price while fulfilling the usage goal/roles for most people and that's with me throwing in the free and assumed possible home charger. That's my point. The point of entry for a given level of function of a car is higher price wise with an EV and takes too long to normalize unless you want the brand to have it.

 

Great! Now how do those compare performance, range, and cost wise vs their gas direct equivalents. They probably beat some of them but for some people the lifestyle changes required break that equation.

I drove a 3P last year and it just doesn't give me anything over my gas cars at all for more money. The S does for 0-60 but I lose luxury and high speed outside of the plaid and P100 b it the cost is way too much for something that doesn't excite or feel special. So for me it doesn't make any sense but that's not the point here.

I am just providing a counter point. I don't actually have much investment aside from literal investments in T and rivian. I really hope Tesla can have something at the 30k price point that is mass market ready.

 

This is a unique market situation right now, everything is expensive, new and used cars. People are actually bragging about how much they paid over MSRP, where it used to be people bragged about how much they paid under invoice. EV's will get cheaper as more people adopt them, and they will only getter better. Although the concept of EV's goes way back, due to massive technological advances, the modern EV is in it's infancy. And if anyone likes it or not, they are future

 

back to the thread topic please.

 

Someone buying a fast sports sedan will not consider a 2 door track machine...one is a swiss army knife, the other is a purposeful tool. We are discussing options within a segment meaning that people that cross shop a Model 3, cross shop the BMW 3 series and in that segment, the total cost of ownership of a Model 3 is significantly lower than a 3 series. A Tesla has no premium over a 3 series in terms of price, so its actually cheaper to own day 1.

If you compare a base Model 3 to a a decently equipped Accord at $30k, that is a $14k difference? If I save $2k-$3k on fuel each ear with no maintenance, you are looking at a 5-7 year breakeven with an Accord....which isn't even in the same class but you keep insisting on comparing. I paid $50 a month (pre-solar) to power my Model 3 Performance while I was driving 12-15k miles a year. I paid about $3000 in gas per year with my IS350 (same car, same class, way less performance) so my savings were about $2300 per year in fuel, $500 in maintenance on average (brakes, oil, lube, etc.). I've owned both types of cars now for many years and can easily say the breakeven with an Accord is only 5-7 years for a significantly inferior car. I don't know where you get your 120-160k miles. I've given you real world figures which I've kept every invoice on.

 

You live in Cali don't you?