The W223 grill is the W222 grille after botox.

 

Yeah, that's why I criticized that aspect of the Range Rover interior lol. But what I mean is that the Range Rover isn't chasing after what's popular- and the Jag XF is far from popular. What the RR and Jag interiors also have in common is that their interiors are quite conservative, which is obviously not the case with the S-Class. I can also forgive the layout somewhat knowing they're part of the same parent company, and there's only so many ways you can design a user interface around a shared infotainment system.

 

The S8 maybe, but the current A8 with the 3.0T is a pretty docile car, easily the slowest among the German trio. Even its AWD system is the "Quattro Ultra" which is a far less capable than previous A8's and has a lot in common with your run-of-the-mill Haldex systems.

Still, it's an amazing car. Some of the tech that it introduced in 2018 really blew my mind, and still do. Amazing that it was equipped for level 3 autonomy all the way back then.

 

A 4.0 A8 of any type beats the other 3 easy, they just eliminated the V8 from anything other than the S since it was just a tune difference and most buyers who want a V8 A8 went to the S8. The buyers who just want an A8 usually won't go past the 6 anyway....I don't consider any of the 6 cyl cars real flagships anyway. Failed by default by not offering real power to the drivers, it's not the same experience if you cant freely dominate 99% of cars on the road

 

Every RR since its inception in 1969-1970 has a common styling heritage. Big greenhouse on a square, rounded body. This is why a RR is recognizable the minute you see it. It's also the reason RR stylists have no reason to go nuts and slap gauche overwrought styling and noses on their vehicles.

Every S class and even the A8 are styled the way they are because of the Bauhaus esthetic... minimalism, functionality, elegance without being shout-y. Their buyers have no reason to get gaudy and yell about their identity to the world.

The Genesis and Lexus brands have to do some homework in the styling department. People want to like the G90, and they will but it's going to take time. Trying too hard won't work.

 

Maybe a bee sting lol

They're all amazing cars, but none of them are as special as the S Class. People aspire to own an S Class, they don't aspire to own an A8 or 7 Series or LS. Same with Range Rover, people aspire to a Range Rover, not an X7.

 

That's definitely not true lol, and I don't know on what basis you could even make such a sweeping statement on.

 

It is true. Everybody who owns that kind of car wants to have an S Class at some point.

 

I disagree, I have no desire for an S-class since they do not drive sharply enough. I would only want the AMG version or an ABC S600 since the normal versions just didn't do it for me. I perfered how the LS does smooth and how the Audis do aggressive and the W221 S class is a middle ground I just didn't like while the 222 is not enough car for the money performance wise.

The segment has many cars that are ultimate tier, the S8, W12, S600, S580 Maybach, S62 AMG, Alpina B7, Dinan, the LS600hl Executive

The Panamera.

I would take all of those over a normal S-class

Suv segment is the same, the RR is not the top unless you get the supercharged version....there is also the G-wagon in TTV8 or 12 form that I would choose without any hesitation over the RR. We also have the LX570 and landcruiser as rivals/alternatives for people who want different things and they have a factory super option. There is also the Trackhawk and Urus if again, you want speed over other aspects.

The normal S-class is the standard but not the ultimate, in the end when you are at this level of car it's best to pick what you like the most and fits your style. I couldn't find one single car so I got two.

 

You're not a new buyer of these cars though, we're talking about new cars not used cars that are no longer made. The S Class is THE car in this segment, half the cars on your list are S Classes...something like a Panamera is also an entirely different car that is aimed at a different buyer.

And if you like your LS460, there's no reason you wouldn't love an S Class, a regular S Class is way sharper than an LS460. Remember you said the LS460 wasn't a better car than the LS430 until you saw the light lol.

All RRs are Supercharged now, and the G Wagon is an entirely different sort of car, as is the Trackhawk and Urus. Those vehicles aren't competitors to the Range Rover.

Theres a reason why the S Class dominates everything else in the segment sales wise and basically always has despite being the most expensive. Its one of the "iconic vehicles of the road" in a way that a 7 Series or an A8 just aren't...911, S Class, Range Rover, these are iconic vehicles that stand the test of time in a very unusual way. The 7 or A8 could be cancelled tomorrow and most people wouldn't be surprised, while if the S Class were cancelled it would be a seismic event in the auto industry.

 

It would not make sense to get an S class since I could get an S8 instead, price for price it's not what I would want. A 460 is 10k.......a W222 4.0 is a lot more and that would be the only version I would want outside of the 5.5TT AMGs or a V12 that are again all much more expensive and in that price tier the Audis are simply superior drivers cars. I don't deny the S class is the standard, but so is the Camry/Accord in other segments.......but some people still buy mazdas etc.

I drove the 221/222 and the 7 series before deciding on a D4 since it drove the best when pushed, the S classes were the softest and most composed when going slow but not when you are on it. Pure comfort wise and ease of use the S class won but that's not enough for me to pick it when it was so behind the other same price options when pushed. My list included S-classes that sit firmly above the entry level versions or the mid option V8s for a reason, those cars have entirely different suspensions, brakes, engines, and transmissions to the point it's like saying a IS350 is the same as an ISF type situation. The AMG cars DO strongly appeal to me but the reliability and aftermarket options are not on the same level as the EA 824/825 nor is the ease of actually working on the car, that was a major deciding factor for me since I had the tune planned before I picked up the car.....

The 460 impresses me for what it is at it's price point, it's insanely good for what you spend and offers far more than one would think at first. When I am paying 40-50k I expect a whole hell of a lot more, a 2017 LS460 loaded to my exact specs cost around 42-47k and I would NEVER spend that on it since it just falls way too short of that price brackets performance potential. Would I ever say a 460 stands up to the TT W222 or god forbid the later 4.0 like yours? No, never. But at 10k it doesn't need to, at 42k+ it absolutely would and falls very short in body control and outright power. If you compare the 460 vs a 221 though unless you have an AMG there is very little difference when you really push them and the Lexus has a better trans....in the 222 era the 460 fell off hard and I really don't think Lexus ever made anything to contend past 221.

I always look at a segment based on price, cars are tailored to different tastes/goals so if you asked me LX, RR or G-wagon for me it would be G-wagon 100% of the time since it is a tank of a car and legendary despite having some serious maintenance considerations vs an LX. Honestly part of that decision is I want to be known to own a G-wagon since I feel it's the most prestigious of them and has extreme curb appeal/presence. If am being "practical" or will actually use it heavily for work or something LX all day. Irony is I will likely end up owning a land rover anyway since I really like the discovery II and again, it's very effective for the price/job I have in mind for it. I would feel bad dragging a G-wagon or RR through undergrowth since they are such nice cars.

If I was to go out right now and buy a true flagship it would be an S8. Period. I would not even consider the S class since it simply can't keep up and if I am paying 120k I expect to be able to dominate nearly anything I come across since that plays a greater role for me than comfort or the admittedly much higher prestige and recognition of Mercedes, they are the top and I don't deny that but they are not the end all for every aspect/buyer. However to concede a point if Mercedes makes a car that is as easy to work on as a D4/D5 and also has as good of an engine and driveline I would never consider Audi......until that point I will stick with them.

 

We're just not talking abut buying these cars used, we're talking about buyers who buy them new. You just aren't the consumer we're talking about.

But exponentially more people choose the S Class than choose the A8, let alone the S8. Thats the proof that its the more aspirational car, and when I say "the S Class" I mean all iterations of the S Class. Like I said, the S Class is one of the great iconic vehicles, the A8 and 7 Series and LS never will be that.

 

I think the G class and LX are far more interesting and appealing than the RR. The RR is definitely more luxurious but the G and LX have that body on frame experience that is impossible to replicate. G class truly is a “special” vehicle. Too bad LX went with a v6

 

They are just really different vehicles. Have you ever driven a G Class? Its not a vehicle I would want to drive every day. Its like driving a fancy Jeep Wrangler.

 

YUP. ROCK solid. The experience is second to nothing else The one I drove was pre redesign. With solid axles front and rear.

People who usually desire these vehicles have other vehicles. It’s never their daily driver.