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Old Mar 11, 2021 | 01:39 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
thank you so much for sharing your EV experience! sounds awesome. again you're in the ideal place to have that setup. would love to hear about your X experience (maybe pm or separate thread) pros/cons/likes/dislikes/issues, etc.
Not the same thing, but I had a 2021 Model X for an overnight test drive - drove it quite a bit actually and I can share my thoughts on it from a first impressions/existing Model S owner perspective if you're interested.

at a high level as to they 'why', the oil business in particular is pretty nasty or sometimes horrifically nasty (exxon valdez, bp rig explosion, etc). and shipping thick black goo drilled out of the ground often MILES below, and then sending that to refineries hundreds or thousands of miles away, and then sending the refined fuels/oils via ship tankers, truck tankers, or pipelines to where they need to go (often thousands of miles away) seems like a LUDICROUSLY inefficient way to do things, but since there's been no alternative to it, the world has made it work, and it's pretty astonishing. we take for granted filling a car at the conveniently local gas station without thinking of the insane effort it took to make that possible. worse, the environmental damage, not just geological, but obviously emissions too. again, through tech and regulation that's become FAR less of an issue per vehicle/use but the numbers of vehicles, ships, planes, etc. keeps increasing, so it's pretty intractable. container cargo ships criss crossing the world powered by diesel are an environmental obscenity but again, there's been no other options. maybe eventually a hyperloop across the oceans will eliminate a lot of that.

at a high level for EVs or electricity generally, the sun's energy is FREE and we should use it! no digging it out of the ground. no transporting it. it's kind of a no brainer. until recently historically it just hasn't been efficient enough but the tech is improving rapidly and then there's the 'storage problem' for when it's not sunny, but even that is slowly being solved. it's pretty easy on a house, but harder for a large scale use, but in australia and other places tesla and others are building massive battery banks. there will be other solutions.

obviously there's other 'clean' means of creating electricity like hydroelectric, wind, waves, and there no doubt will be others.

so there's the "real case as to WHY" we should a) end mass scale use of fossil fuels and b) switch to electricity.



right but it's not JUST about the US. the whole world has to lessen its reliance on fossil fuels, especially coal. unfortunately china, due to its insatiably growing demand for energy continues to make new coal plants.



see above.



you may well be right on both fronts but that alone doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.



and the FF industry has been honest? only through litigation! again i'm not down on ICE vehicles, and i'm not ready for an EV myself, but that case gets more and more compelling, for more and more people, by the day. arguments against it are a bit like people clinging to land lines or DVDs because they don't like cell phones or streaming video.



you enjoy driving them recreationally. i assume you're not stuck in massive daily slog traffic or other trips that you really don't WANT to take. if anything, COVID has made the country more divided with 'knowledge' workers able to work from home and the rest still having to drive somewhere (or take public transportation) to clean places, make food, tend to the sick, etc. for those who HAVE to drive, self-driving cars will be one of the greatest liberating things ever. even commercial truck drivers, who no doubt will become endangered, will be forced to do something healthier (driving for a living is VERY unhealthy not to mention dangerous). but like you, i enjoy driving my sports car for fun, but thankfully, i don't have to do it every day.



and 10 years ago you couldn't ask your phone "where's the nearest starbucks?" you're truly underestimating (or just not understanding) the pace of change and the coming AI complete transformation of everything for good and bad.



i believe you are doing the same, only seeing it from what car tech is TODAY. in 5 years, it will be completely different.

respectfully, as shown by your love of old 'retro' cars, like evitzee you're not keen on the rapid changes we're seeing, that are coming, like it or not. and again, if there's a cleaner alternative to the oil/gas industry, i'm all for it.

driving does require skill, but as steve points out, not just him, but MOST knowledge workers today need to be available at all hours to respond to texts/emails/virtual meetings/websites, etc. driving becomes simply a waste of time unless it's recreational.

as far as staying sharp, as you say, use any number of the zillion brain training apps, plus physical exercise, plus forums like this!
Awesome post Paul!
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Old Mar 11, 2021 | 08:03 PM
  #152  
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LOL, the thread got pretty funny. If you're so important that you hire minions to do your tasks, get a minion to drive you around while you're indulging in your super important tasks, why wait for self driving cars?
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Old Mar 11, 2021 | 08:11 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Och
LOL, the thread got pretty funny. If you're so important that you hire minions to do your tasks, get a minion to drive you around while you're indulging in your super important tasks, why wait for self driving cars?
A driver would be quite expensive and ostentatious. Although, thats why a lot of business executives have drivers.
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Old Mar 11, 2021 | 08:17 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Hameed
Not the same thing, but I had a 2021 Model X for an overnight test drive - drove it quite a bit actually and I can share my thoughts on it from a first impressions/existing Model S owner perspective if you're interested.
definitely interested (pm or new thread)! I was REALLY interested in the X but it's not a small purchase and significant quality complaints put me off. No i haven't driven a tesla yet and yes, i know i'd love driving one.

Awesome post Paul!
Thank you!

Originally Posted by Och
LOL, the thread got pretty funny. If you're so important that you hire minions to do your tasks, get a minion to drive you around while you're indulging in your super important tasks, why wait for self driving cars?
Hiring minions to do tasks is what every business must do unless you're a one person shop so that hardly means one must get a chauffeur and a self-driving car will 'work' 24 hours a day for nothing. I envision it going off and charging itself while owner is doing other things. This is also the robo taxi fleet idea where cars will drive off to a walmart parking lot or something to charge until summoned by uber or whatever to be of service. Can't wait!
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Old Mar 11, 2021 | 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Och
Take hybrids for instance, they were all the rage in the early/mid 00s, and a lot of people bought hybrids just for the sake of getting a hybrid, overlooking all the g-d awful qualities of these early hybrids. Garbage like the Lexus CT and HS comes to mind, with laundry detergent container grade of interior plastics, disposable build quality and anemic drivetrains, and yet people still desired them. Now that the hype has calmed down, people buy hybrids on actual merit instead of hype, and most hybrids are no longer quirky but rather just regular cars with hybrid drivetrain.
Sure, when something is new and unique that will add to the appeal. Maybe I wasn't following closely at the time, were hybrids really as hyped as EVs now? Even the Prius was derided, and the HS only sold about 20k total in the US before getting pulled. I remember seeing one in the show room when we got the IS in 2009. I'd never heard of it before, but it's one of the things I remember from that day because I was just amazed at how ugly and terrible it looked.
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Old Mar 12, 2021 | 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sg021
Maybe I wasn't following closely at the time, were hybrids really as hyped as EVs now? Even the Prius was derided, and the HS only sold about 20k total in the US before getting pulled. I remember seeing one in the show room when we got the IS in 2009. I'd never heard of it before, but it's one of the things I remember from that day because I was just amazed at how ugly and terrible it looked.
and there's your answer. some bought prius's to wear the ugly badge of honor that they were saving the planet.


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Old Mar 12, 2021 | 08:08 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
definitely interested (pm or new thread)! I was REALLY interested in the X but it's not a small purchase and significant quality complaints put me off. No i haven't driven a tesla yet and yes, i know i'd love driving one.
Here you go - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ange-plus.html
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Old Mar 12, 2021 | 08:15 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
and there's your answer. some bought prius's to wear the ugly badge of honor that they were saving the planet.

100% Agree! I have been asking why most electric vehicles are so butt ugly & this nails it! I don’t wear badge of honors for saving anything & will not buy a sinfully ugly vehicle. I’m not against EVs, but I am against ugly vehicles & right now, an EV is completely out of the question, due to lack of support. Porsche EV is gorgeous as well as the Tesla Model S. The rest, forget about it!
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 02:41 PM
  #159  
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EV rationalization-eb6fxca.png

Who needs ICE, lol.

Last edited by Och; Mar 16, 2021 at 07:24 PM.
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 02:52 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Och


Who needs ICE, lol.
Me!!! There is no charging station within 80 miles & I’m not upgrading my breaker box & electrical service.
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 02:55 PM
  #161  
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I always said the same thing about hybrids too, why do they have to be so ugly?
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 02:58 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I always said the same thing about hybrids too, why do they have to be so ugly?
Yeah, why, Toyota? The Prius went from frumpy to ugly to still ugly to downright insect.
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I always said the same thing about hybrids too, why do they have to be so ugly?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the “best looking” hybrids are Lexus & Ford. GM used to have hybrid pickup trucks & SUVs, but dropped them for some reason. In comparison of my RX 450h to a regular RX 350, I have noted the following clear advantages of the hybrid:
1) Quiet - when on battery or at a light, it’s almost silent
2) Great mpg in the city - highway mpg is not that different from ICE
3) Way better transmission - I never thought I would like a CVT, but after driving numerous 350s that could never figure out what gear to use or surged annoyingly, my CVT is like a plate of comfort food - always consistent.

Sadly, I would not buy a new RX 350 now for any price. I absolutely HATE the transmission & the so-called safety equipment is beyond annoying. I would move up to the GX 460, but Lexus hasn’t done anything to really improve the simple tech in that clumsy SUV. More than likely, I will end up with a pickup. I’m curious about the new Ford F-150 hybrid, but it hasn’t been out long enough to determine if it’s worth the extra money. If there were abundant charging stations in my area & a nice, good looking EV pickup or SUV, I would at least consider it.
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 03:16 PM
  #164  
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The Lexus and Ford ones look normal, thats why theyre the best looking lol. Well save for the Lexus HS and the Ford C Max, which they obviously no longer make.
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Old Mar 16, 2021 | 07:06 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
The Lexus and Ford ones look normal, thats why theyre the best looking lol. Well save for the Lexus HS and the Ford C Max, which they obviously no longer make.

Subective, of course, but the C-Max probably looked more normal than the HS.



The only reason we got the C-Max in the first place is that, for whatever reason, Ford decided not to do a hybrid version of the Third-Generation Escape in the U.S. The C-Max, though technically more of a wagon and not a crossover like the Escape, took the place of what would have been the Escape Hybrid.
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