Oh yeah, plenty of Japanese steel in those ES's made in Kentucky and RX's made in Canada. You know, the two best-selling and arguably most reliable cars in Lexus's entire lineup.

Meanwhile, the LS500 -made in Japan- has been out for only 3 years and currently has an 13/100 for on reliability on Consumer Reports. Hmm...

Look up any reliability assessment and you'll see they're doing quite well, usually ahead of Honda and miles ahead of Nissan.

 

The unfortunate truth is, they might very well know their metallurgy, but they might not apply superior knowledge for cost considerations in their prodution line. Kawasaki Heavy Industries builds ships. They also build motorcycles. Every Kawasaki I worked on had a bunch of "swarth" in the oil pan from the factory. No idea why; they'd never get away with this building ships, but there it was, every time. Just because you possess the knowledge doesn't mean you'll exercise superior technical execution in the face of your accountants. My experience with Samsung has made me very skeptical of the brand, and I'm not talking just cellphones or even tablets, their post sale support is just awful for an alarming range of their products. They'll enter a market, deliver quality products, and inexplicably drop the product line!

I remember riding in Hyundai cars while TDY in Korea in 1980. I also remember those cars coming to America and how they completely misunderstood the US market's expectations. I still don't see them as a viable challenge to Toyota/Lexus for anything other than price.

 

One thing that I would want to know-- how much would an LS500 cost if you equipped it the same as the G90 you are considering? The $5,000 price difference you state isn't wildly far off...but I'd want to make a more direct comparison. Personally, if I really liked 2 cars and had a hard time deciding, the one with more "stuff" would weigh heavily in my mind.

 

...........even if it were "Stuff" that you didn't particularly want, or care for?

 

There's always going to be something I don't care about bundled with something I do. OP noted that a $74,000 LS500 doesn't have a surround view camera. That's just ridiculous.

And--opinions *should* evolve. Until I got my wife's '19 Santa Fe, I rarely, if ever, used cruise control because in the Northeast, there's so few roads that you can use it without constantly engaging it, and then turning it off. The SF has adaptive CC, which I had never used before, and never cared about, but it is fantastic, even on a busy highway.

So--I would not have checked a box to add it pre-purchase, but I'm really glad to have it now. I can list out other things over the years that I didn't think I cared about until I had it.

So...."Yes", even "stuff" I don't want or care for.

 

I think this is a little dramatic. A car is not a wife of a girlfriend. Its a thing, a tool and at this level its a thing that someone purchases because they enjoy it. When they get to the point where they no longer enjoy it then its time to replace it with something they enjoy. I get bored of cars after 3 years or so and I want a new one, that doesn't mean I want a new wife lol.

The pre refresh LS500 with air suspension doesnt ride as well as the G90. I cant say about the 21 because I havent driven one.

Totally agree, but all of my Lexus vehicles did in fact go back to the dealer within the first few years for repairs.

A comparable LS500 would be at least $95,000.

 

nothing dramatic about it as the same part of the brain that easily bores with one thing bores with another. You can very easily replace one with another. As for wanting a new car every few months or years those drivers can be different( wanting to impress with new, warranty, updated windshield washer switch or whatever) The older fellow who wants a new car keeps them between 7-10 years and is very likely not bored with his car just wants a newer one he thinks will be more reliable as people have a tendency and often rightly so to think older cars are less reliable . In This case I think he’s getting terrible advice on these boards by suggesting moving to a genesis over an older Lexus for long term ownership and satisfaction.

every single poster advising him to do so is giving bad advice as not one has owned a genesis for 10 years so they don’t know how long it will hold up. Not one knows the difference in quality of the drivetrain components so they don’t know how long they will hold up. So folks are chiming in with opinion based on what “they” would like and not maybe what’s best for the Gentleman driving the car.

I still place my bets in 10 years whomever gets his 2013 Ls will have a Much better car than he will I’m 10 years if he buys a G90.

id bet 10k on that knowing what I know. Make that 100k


as for the NEW LS500. We all associate luxury with space. First class seats in an airplane.=space. Top rated hotel rooms=space. Luxury Cars =space. Luxurious bathroom =space and on and on

when
lexus made the new ls500 they took much of the cabin space away and instantly turned off 80% of the buyers on due to space. Ask the dealers they’ll tel you folks often won’t even test drive it after just sitting in it in the show room A tight car is not a more comfortable car it’s less comfortable. That’s where they flat out screwed up. It’s till a great car if your Tom Cruise, Prince,Paul Simon, Shakira or Danny Dovito. As for Rosie or Oprah a G90 it is.

 

The G90 would be compelling if it’s sold at a very deep discount relative to its competition. Instead Hyundai is saying “We’re top tier luxury and everyone thinks we are top tier too.”

 

You're passing judgement on the behavior of others vs how you choose to behave. If you're happy keeping a car a long time great, nobody is telling you that you shouldn't do that. I am not happy keeping a car that long, so I don't. Doesn't mean I'm "chasing shiny things" or other such virtue signaling nonsense, I just like new cars. If you choose to have a relationship with a car you would equate to that you have with your wife thats your choice. My car is just a thing I enjoy having. Its value to me is that of a thing. The length of time until someone gets bored depends on the individual.

The OP did not ask whether the person that he is helping should or should not replace his 2013 LS. He said he WAS replacing his 2013 LS and which replacement option should he choose.

It is dramatically cheaper than the competition. As we discussed its $30,000 cheaper than a comparable LS500, and $50,000 cheaper than a comparable German sedan.

 

Sorry, but I don't understand the logic to equate a Hyundai economy car sold 40 years ago with a modern Genesis G90. If you can find me some solid information about how the Genesis G90 or any Hyundai's metallurgy process is supposedly inferior to this Japanese magical steel folded 1000 times, I would love to see it.

 

With all due respect, I cannot agree with your reasoning at all. While, of course, opinions will differ, those of us recommending the G90 over the LS500 are NOT giving the OP bad advice. First of all, even if we sometimes disagree, many of us on Car Chat (me included) don't just talk of the tip of our hats....we actually go LOOK at new vehicles, whether at dealerships or auto shows, inspect them, test-drive them, and evaluate them for ourselves. Second, many of us don't just rely on our own opinions, but regularly watch the videos and read the articles done by professional auto reviewers.....and, IMO, it is hard to beat some of those done by Alex Dykes (Alex on Autos). Third, some of us here (me included) actually write about vehicles ourselves. Fourth, depending on the vehicle, some of us can also speak from ownership experience ourselves. Fifth, you mention a lack of 10 years' ownership....it is hard to predict the reliability of any new vehicle that long in advance.....problems can, and do, crop up from vehicles of virtually every manufacturer.

 

Exactly. It's also worth mentioning the average age of all cars being driven in America is 12 years old, so to say that a car from any brand can't last a decade is one heck of an unsubstantiated claim.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...road-12-years/

 

Without opining on whether or not OP is getting sound advice or bad advice, any advice obtained in an anonymous forum on the internet, whether on car buying or restaurant eating or ride sharing drivers, is going to be automatically suspect.

Including yours.

Buyer beware.

 

Not many folks do agree with my reasoning as its takes time into consideration. I don't fall for the flash of new. Time has a way of revealing the flaws in everything especially cars, and as one who actually values money, its important to teach my children and grand children which cars are good to buy and which are not good to buy based on long term ownership costs, reliability and value. This reasoning is lost on many. Based on this reasoning and the long term reliability of Hyundai vs Toyota I stand by my comment that folks advising the gentleman to buy a Hyundai over a Lexus, or even Keeping his 2013 is indeed bad advice if he values his money and time.

The car reviewers who know cars are the ones reviewing 10 year old models from a mechanical perspective, As for professional new car reviewers, well that's like going to a movie star for spiritual advice. They put on a good show but there is little to no wisdom in the information provided, Doug is a classic example of this. He is entertaining I guess that's worth something.

As for you writing about cars, I realize that and quite frankly you are good at it. Your ability to write is excellent and quite frankly I'm envious of your communication skills, as mine suck. You however know nothing about me and my car experience so I'll tell you a bit. I am absolutely no expert, i've only driven somewhere between 46,000 -50,000 cars, owned over 70 personal vehicles and managed fleets of 100's at a time and actually paid the maintenance bills on them .IVe spent a lot of time with Ford Engineers from Germany when they used to test the Mystic and Contours on the Great Slave lake in the NWT. THey gave me one for 4 hours one day just to get a 'users' review and I made 7 recommendations and they only implemented 3. Have kept in touch with many as they've moved on to other makers, and often discuss the engineering side of cars and materials. Same with a cousin of mine who's a big at the Rx plant in Cambridge. where the volume of cars came in is when I was valet parking 50 hours a week while attending university full time summers included, graduated near the top of the class in spite of never buying a textbook. Im a professional in 3 different vocations all unrelated to each other, didn't finish my law degree, MD degree or engineering degree due to boredom, lived and worked in 7 different countries and fluent in a few languages. That's me, so I have not trouble comprehending why my opinion on cars here is not often valued, and my why reasoning is lost on some. That's okay, as I think i'm doing okay in life. I do spend time here for entertainment as my life is winding down, and have more free time than I used to.

Cheers

 

Again, you're passing judgement on people who don't choose to own cars the way you do. People who like new cars don't "fall for the flash of new", they simply want a new car. In order for someone to "fall" for something they would have to be tricked or duped in some way and thats not the case.

If you want to keep a car for a long time, thats great...that doesnt mean people who choose not to do that have been "tricked" into buying a new car.