The standard of what passes as standard equipment would probably go up, but on the flip side, if cheap evs brought cheap performance.....those who should not be behind the wheel are gonna be not fun to be around.

 

china’s xpeng self driving capability is REALLY impressive, in direct comparison to tesla’s fsd 13…


note to self - never drive myself in a crowded chinese city 😂

 

I really like this Zeekr Z8. Their Z9 is basically a Cullinan for under 100k.

 

I think one of the big differences between the West and China is that China is a 10,000 + year old country and culturally they plan and model for much longer time frames than many of us in the West. Here in the US corporate planning is held hostage to the quarterly earnings that investors demand and Wall Street nurtures. That they would suffer near term losses for longer term gains shouldn’t surprise anyone who has even a remedial understanding of their world. Even now they are patiently expanding in many areas that will push us and will surpass us. While they existed as a relatively closed society for many decades they are now cautiously and methodically expanding their footprint. They see the natural resources in Africa and have been forging a dominant footprint there. They play by their rules which is basically no rules and can be and will continue to be our biggest threat. Stealing technology has been raised to an art level there and our own corporate greed acquiesced to sharing proprietary technology to gain market share which can be yanked back at any time but the technology stays. I remember a time when Japanese products were viewed here as being cheap and unreliable. Look how the Japanese have flipped that script and the Koreans are leaping forward as well. I won’t predict doom and gloom here and I firmly believe competition makes us all better but we are being challenged like never before.

 

It definitely would be an EV disruptor here. They gave up on ICE so we would be relatively fine there outside of those leaving for an EV. In chatting with friends in the industry in Canada, they are excited to see them coming.

 

Agree. Without a support and infrastructure build out these flash charged Chinese vehicles will be like having a racehorse stuck in a parking garage. Over the past 75 years our system has been completely focused on individualy owned ICE driven cars. Unlike most of the rest of the world we built out a national highway system second to none but at the expense of things like high speed rail and solid alternative transportation systems. Oil was cheap and it fed the independent spirit of our country. Nothing lasts forever and we are seeing the beginning of the end for that as our only way of getting from A to B. China’s advantage is they are doing something similar with EVs building out a national system to accommodate and grow the technology. They have just about given owners of their latest technology a gas station like experience for recharging(refueling). I can’t imagine how long that may take here to replace a system that has so much of an anchor to our daily lives. We are an amazing country when it comes to inventiveness and when we are pressed we have made world leading technologies. We will see how we answer the bell now that there is a formidable fighter in the other corner.

 

What makes the difference is that country and every company in it is run by the government.
Additionally, that government does not change, ever. There is no left or right.

When it comes to profitability and even good product, this is probably not the best. When it comes to driving country-improtant agendas through decades of work, this is detrimental.

 

It would probably cost closer to 200k if it ever came to the west.

It would sell nothing, just like most of Chinese cars at higher than 40k prices sell nothing in Europe.

But, their 30k and under sell well and will continue to sell more.

Cherry mentioned few days ago has 2 brands in Europe that sell most cars between 25k and 35k price points, locally. They are mostly just regular petrols.
It is best selling car in UK right now.

On the other hand, press darlings like Xpeng, Nio and Zeekr sell almost nothing.

 

People that want luxury cars generally also want brand prestige - Lexus was often looked down at, Genesis is not even in the hairpins of many luxury buyers, etc. The Chinese will have even more problems penetrating this market, at least in the USA. But they are doing their thing and going for the world domination once the old empires finally collapse.

 

The first vehicles are all luxo barges. I wonder if they follow the same game plan as they have done in other markets; decontent, jack up price.

 

While there may be no left or right, China has indeed changed. Under Mao and his “little red book” there was not even a hint of capitalism, it was a brutal totalitarian socialist state. This next evolution has married capitalism to the socialist structure producing what you pointed out, Government supported competitive companies. There is more than one EV manufacturer in China, at this point it’s quite a heated competitive landscape. So while it remains a brutal authoritarian regime, it’s quite different than it was 60 years ago. I wouldn’t sleep on their patience. Remember when Toyota and Datsun washed up on our shores, the thought of them penetrating the luxury market would have been laughed at. The irony of posting this discussion in a Lexus enthusiast site isn’t lost on me. I don’t know if we will see anything like that here and whether China ever imports or builds cars here but their growing dominance on the world stage is undeniable.

 

Agreed and Americans need to stop acting like we don't also do government/private partnerships. Great things are created when the two are aligned. I wish the government would be more supportive of the automobile industry here instead of demonizing such a wonderful industry.

Thanks for joining the thread.

 

I think that the bailouts of the Auto manufacturers over the years are certainly a form of support. The challenge with that here is that every administration may have a different view of what support looks like. As was noted above China, while they change leaderships is still run in a more linear way. Theoretically by allowing Capitalism to evolve without any government intervention should produce the strongest survivors and some would say that out of the ashes of failed companies a phoenix or two may sprout. The problem with that is while in manufacturing that may work, in banking it could produce a complete failure of our system. While the government let a couple of banks fail during the last financial crisis it stepped in to save the biggest ones probably the right thing at the time. Certainly government sponsored companies have an advantage and who deserves that is the question and challenge. The single biggest change that happened over the last 50 years is that labor became a global commodity and, like water, will seek its own level. That genie is out of the bottle. China has a labor force unlike any other country and in the near term will remain unrivaled. No amount of tariffs will change that IMHO.

 

glad to see there's life in this thread.

usual note: we need to not get into politics much and extol or criticize ideologies, sticking to facts about them is ok though.

what happens if a chinese company buys rolls royce? even a mercedes, vw, etc., could end up needing a huge capital infusion which could come from china to give them a big stake in the game.

despite china's amazing gains and 'strategy', they have some big challenges, specifically very low birth rates, big real estate and debt problems, and likely over supply of many things, including electric cars. no doubt they have some plans for these things, but it won't be easy.

i have thought for decades that china will rule the world at some point, largely because the "west" has so much in fighting and plans swinging from one end to another which is often counter productive, but we shall all see, if we survive until then!

 

True Lotus, Volvo and Polestar are Chinese owned. Lotus EV plans were decimated by tariffs for being chinese produced.