I already addressed BMW and Audi in my response to you. Audi is moving to EV-dedicated platforms because they present less compromises than electrifying an existing ICE platform. BMW is transitioning to the Neue Klasse which is EV-centric (straight from CEO Oliver Zipse mouth: https://insideevs.com/news/525994/bm...-oliver-zipse/) where the ICE element is secondary. Automakers know dedicated EV platforms (or atleast BEV-first) are ideal. Porsche representatives actually reaffirmed their belief in that in a recent article about their EV future. I'm eager to see how the G80e performs but I don't have full specs to review. I don't doubt the Hyundai/Kia/Genesis' prowess in this regard so I do want to acknowledge they very likely have a great plan in store for the future of the G80.

We actually do know that. The C-class equivalent EV will not be on MRA II. It will be on MMA, which will handle small and midize cars for Mercedes. https://topelectricsuv.com/news/merc...s-eqc-details/

 

i didn't write that they were the "only" things that matter, i gave them as examples of things that do matter in a large luxury sedan.

unlike tesla, mercedes won't cheat and lie about range. everyone knows tesla's 'ratings' are a joke.

dozens of threads on here have said this isn't true because people can charge at home. still i guess you mean on long multi-day trips, and sure, that's important. i don't know how that's going to work out for mb.

everyone's entitled to their opinion, and even stay with it as the rest of the world moves on. i think the eqs, eqe, etc. will be gigantic successes. i also don't think this will affect tesla, which is producing so few model S/Xs at this point... they're trying to be the general motors of EVs with a truck and a model 2 being WAY more important than the S/X and competing with the likes of mb, lucid, etc.

you don't know that because with worse aerodynamics their range figures would have almost certainly been worse.

that's just silly... it was never designed for it, and would basically turn the s-class into an suv.

awesome post!

there was no point in spending money and time (not to mention creating market confusion) making the s-class EV capable because they made the EQS. it's really simple.

yes, and look how bad the results have been, like your beloved G80e.

thanks for the laugh.

 

Again, just because they're moving to pure EV platforms doesn't mean their ICE platforms aren't capable of electrification. EV's will be made mandatory in Europe and China by 2025-2030. Mercedes isn't stupid enough to invest in a brand new platform that can only be used for five years. Over time, companies will move to dedicated EV platforms, but we are still in the middle of that transition process. Until then, claiming that the S-Class platform can't be EV-fied isn't realistic.

EQC is not a C-Class equivalent, it's the EV equivalent of the GLC.


lol you are aware that Mercedes was part of Dieselgate, right? The EPA has spoken, Mercedes failed.

It's been confirmed by Thomas from Autogefuel after talking to Mercedes engineers that the car looks the way it does to appeal to the Chinese market... range has little to do with it.

Raising a car by 1 inch doesn't make it an SUV.

See my above response to Tango. Mercedes isn't stupid enough to design a new ICE platform in 2021 that can't be fully electrified at a time when 5-10 years from now EV's will be made mandatory in Europe and China.

lol where are the "bad results"? The electric G80 has already been certified in South Korea to have a range of 270 miles. And Korean certification is more strict than EPA.

If your beloved EQS can barely break 350 EPA miles then the EQE with its smaller battery won't even go over 300 lol. A range difference of less than 30 miles is a great tradeoff for a car that doesn't look like a 2010 Civic.

 

i disagree with you that it would be stupid, as they spent their money on a new platform instead. and in 5-10 years, the EQS will BE the ONLY s-class. ZERO point in making the ICE s-class capable of being turned into an EV. i don't see why you're making it so complicated. why would MB want an EV s-class AND and EV EQS?

270 isn't that great. i will say though, off topic, but i just watched this video on it, and it's pretty nice.

 

The MRA II platform is an evolution of MRA and was designed for PHEV at most. I don't know why you're in denial over this, it just is what it is. Mercedes invested in EVA2 platform development long ago and touted this as the way forward. There's a distinct reason that no plans of fully electrifying MRA II have been mentioned at all.

Mercedes had a big EV day back in July. They explicitly mentioned three platforms: MB.EA (EVA2 evolution), AMG.EA (dedicated AMG EV platform), and Van.EA (for...vans). They also mentioned that the MMA platform, which is set to debut in 2024, will handle small-to-mid size EVs vehicles. They also mentioned that MMA can support the need for ICE in some markets, but is an electric-first platform. BMW is doing the same thing with its Neueu Klasse platform as MB is doing with MMA, but not just for small-to-midsize cars.

What point are you making here? You started talking about the inevitable EV version of the C-class and I told you that it will arrive on a separate platform (MMA). The EQC is just an adapted GLC...as mentioned earlier. Purely a stopgap model.

 

Because the EQS is an image product- it was designed to appeal specifically to the Chinese audience unlike the S-Class which is more Euro-centric. As history has shown, Mercedes is perfectly okay cannibalizing themselves in their own lineup (i.e. AMG GT 4-Door vs CLS). Either way, to think they would discontinue the S-Class in any country by 2025 is unfeasible.

Relative to what? That's better than an AWD GV60. The only actual competitor it has currently is the Model S, which you claim is cheating lol.

 

All you are doing is avoiding the original question- where is Mercedes's confirmation that the MRA2 platform can't be electrified? The Genesis platform being used in the electric G80 was also an "evolution" of the one in the Hyundai Genesis in 2015- just because the original platform can't be electrified doesn't mean its successor isn't capable of it.

The reality is that within 5-10 years Mercedes's entire lineup will have to be capable of 100% electrification.

Because the article makes absolute no mention of the C-Class, which was the subject of the discussion. It talks about the EQC, not the C-Class. It makes no mention of an EV version of the C-Class on its own bespoke platform.

 

If you're trying to catch me on the "can't", then sure I'm sure with some adaptation they could do it. They have world-class engineers. But Mercedes has said that they won't, which makes the whole argument you're making moot. They're moving forward with EV platforms that were outlined in their July meeting. MRA II will fade out.

The article did say that small-to-midsize vehicles will be on MMA. What size do you think the C-class is? lol

EDIT: Notice how no mention of just electrifying MRA II was made here? https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ive-after-2024

Mercedes in general is appealing to the Chinese audience because the Chinese are what's driving their profits. Mercedes is actively increasing their focus on the Chinese market. And while China may have dictated the styling, Europe is going to have to swallow it too. EVs are rapidly being incentivized across Europe and Mercedes is depending on these EQ models to serve the market. They are fully expecting the EQE in particular to be a major player across Europe.

It's no coincidence the EQS and S-class debuted at the same time as MB transitions. By the next generation, logic would dictate that the models will merge onto the aforementioned MB.EA platform, which is going to be the only large car platform MB is investing in.

Further, you're acting like the EQS is standing alone. The EQE, EQE SUV, and EQS SUV are all main components of this EV strategy.

 

So according to you, we are to believe that Mercedes just wasted millions on a brand new RWD platform that they're going to throw away after 5 years of used? lol

Thanks, a solid factual basis for once. But like S-Class and EQS, the C-Class isn't just going to die once the ICE ban hits just because of this EV equivalent.

There is ZERO chance the EQS will replace the S-Class in Europe, and telling Europeans to "swallow it" is the least convincing argument Mercedes can make. Mercedes tailors their vehicles to each market and would never make such a boneheaded decision that will destroy the legitimacy of the S-Class by replacing it with the EQS.

 

This new G80e is not gonna sell well. Although I do like the G80

You are right. It makes no sense to design a S class EV as well as a EQS EV.

 

After 2025 the only G80 anyone can buy will be electric, so they don't really have a choice. The G80 isn't scheduled for a full redesign until 2027.

 

According to me, MRA II will die after the current generation vehicles is phased out. It's hardly uncommon for a platform to last just 1 generation. The phaseout will occur at different times since the vehicles themselves launch on different timelines.

I think you clearly misunderstood what I said earlier. I said logic would dictate that as these models reach the end of their lifecycle they'll converge. That means the next generation likely won't see a separate S-class and EQS, there will just be one model. What that car will look like is anyone's guess.

And again, I never said the EQS will replace the S-class in Europe. It will, until the next generation, be the only EV large sedan MB offers. There are no plans to fully electrify the W223 S-class. So if buyers want a Benz and want to take advantage of those sweet EV incentives many European countries are pushing, that's it for now. That is the defacto way of saying "deal with it".

 

That is not true. Genesis is their very clever press release said, only new EVs will be released, no more new gas models …they plan to phase out ICE models by 2030.

 

An ICEV platform electrified like Lexus UX300e BEV is different to a dedicated BEV platform like e-TNGA in forthcoming 2023 Toyota BZ because the dedicated BEV platform has specialized stretched wheelbase and widened tracks to accommodate a larger battery pack.
That's why the Lexus UX300e's battery pack is only a tiny 54.3 kWh.
Likewise, a Nissan Leaf doesn't have much of a battery pack either at 62 kWh, because the Leaf uses a Renault/Dacia B0 long wheelbase platform.

The dedicated BEV platform is also more specialized to accommodate the additional height of the battery pack too.

 

DieselGate my friend.

That goes both ways. 😃