Exactly. And just like 12 years ago, the BlackBerry was THE smartphone. Now, it's been left behind. No one says "I don't want that iPhone or Android because BlackBerry really created this market."

 

There have been so many crazes in cellphones it's difficult to tell who exactly created the huge market as we know it today. I bought my I-Phone7 primarily based on my experience with the I-phone4 (and familiarity with I-phone operation in general) not because Blackberry either created or did not create the market....for me, that was irrelevant.

 

So your past experience/reputation with an Apple phone is the reason you upgraded to the 7?

 

It was one of the big factors.....not the only one. But I liked the fact that, with I-Phones, when you upgrade, with some minor exceptions, you don't have to learn a whole new system of operation, like you would have with, say, a Samsung or a Blackberry. Apple also has a quality reputation that, in many ways, is second to one.

 

Try and keep my thread on topic please guys so it doesn't get closed.

I think the issue is because of the publicity some of the issues people are having is getting.

Having driven all the minivans many times, my sister in law has a new Odyssey also, the Pacifica is the best all around product. It has the most thought out design, best features, best ride and drive overall (Sienna has a smoother powertrain and rides softer but feels sloppy). BUT, the reliability issues out there are serious. Just look at the forums, talks of buybacks, major issues leaving people stranded, vans in the shop for 30 days at a time. Just nothing you see with a Toyota or Honda.

I also think that deals are available on the Odyssey now where when I bought they weren't, which has an impact. An Odyssey with a $3,000 cheaper MSRP would have been $200 more a month to lease when I got my Pacifica, and $10,000 more to buy (Pacifica was $13k off and Odyssey was strict MSRP). Deals on the Sienna are also great because its so old. Odyssey or Sienna is a much better bet for reliability vs the Pacifica, even if the package isn't all around designed as well.

The article is fairly dumb though, I love this line:

There are tons of married couples with two kids who can afford a $50,000 minivan, and the Sienna is $50k too fully loaded, and a loaded Odyssey is $48k. Pacificas also usually trade for $10k off sticker, so out the door its actually the cheapest not the most expensive like the article claims.

 

That is a mighty discount for a van that starts about $4500 less than a Toyota.

 

Thats the thing about Chryslers, and to a lesser extend Fords and GM products, is the trunk money. Ton of rebates and such that bring the price down. My Pacifica had an MSRP of like $49,500 or something, and the final negotiated price was $36,500. When you consider the sales price of $36,500 its really an incredible van. If it wasn't so full of issues and potential issues that is. Lease payment is only $515 a month with 0 down. For a $50k vehicle.

Out Jeeps were the same way.

 

IMO, the smart buyer buys the van, rolls the dice and pockets the $13K in savings instead of paying closer to MSRP for the Sienna or Odyssey. You can fix the Pacifica quite a few times for $13.5K

 

The (potential) reliability issues, and the fact that Toyota, Honda, and Kia all offer American-market minivans that are more reliable may have been a couple of reasons why you got an almost 50K van for 36.5K. I'm certainly not knocking the price...and if the price was correct, (I have no reason to doubt your word on that), you made out like a bandit. But automakers don't offer rebates like that for nothing...there is usually a reason for it. And, as the late, well-built Infiniti Q45 demonstrated, to a tee, that reliability is no guarantee of good sales.

And, as I said in earlier posts, though I won't expound on it again here due to your request to keep things on topic, There is nothing necessarily magic about the Sienna's nameplate, either..they can, and do, have problems.

You've owned two JGCs, right? From what I remember, you were satisfied with the reliability with one of the, but not the other.

 

CR reports as one of the Pros: is that the Sienna has a strong reliability history. Keep that in mind, as the Pacifica is 1/5 and is the red for reliability.

 

Thats what I did, but if I had it to do over again I wouldnt have. Money is a renewable resource, but time is not. Its incredibly inconvenient to have to deal with reliability issues with a family vehicle like the Pacifica. My wife and kids' whole world is in that van, having to put it into the shop even for a day is a huge problem.

Its just part of the way American carmakers price their vehicles.

But they are far less likely to have problems.

Yep, the first one was like the Pacifica, the second one was great but I only had it 10 months.

Yep, thats a big pro.

 

I would rather pocket the $13.5k in savings and rent a limousine every time the vehicle has to go in the shop. At least if you are leasing it and not buying it. I doubt the Pacifica will need $13.5K in repairs in the 7-10 years of ownership if you did in fact buy it.

 

If I remember correctly you don't have children. Before I had children I would have said the same thing.

We are super busy people. I work all the time, we have twin 4 year olds and my wife uses the van to take them around places. Have to move carseats, have to move stroller, won't have their DVD system to watch movies, then I have to somehow fit into my day dropping the Pacifica off and getting a rental, and then being without my car while I'm working and I work out of my car and dont have any of the stuff I carry around in it and need. Then you worry about trips and such and whether the issue of them stalling at intersections is going to happen to you, or if the weird grinding noise of the sliding door means its going to mean it falls off...which is an issue also.

Having a problematic car just sucks. Huge PITA. Remember part of that $13k comes back to you in better resale, etc. If I had to own this thing for 7-10 years I would set it on fire.

 

Don't say that. Remember, you had to deal with a fire on your last minivan.

BTW, on a more serious note, you would be surprised at the number of people who DO try to destroy their vehicles to get a payout...classic insurance-fraud. Happens every day.

 

Haha, touche!