mmarshall

Incorrect. I did not respond because, IMO, what Jill said did not make sense. Many Pacifica owners, despite reliability problems, are quite happy with them. Steve himself (who started the thread) said he still likes his Pacifica, even if reliability problems prevent another Chrysler purchase. I still like the Lacrosse, even though I've had a couple of issues with mine.


Well, OK, then.....since you want to bring up Lexus, then lets take them as an example. Lexus started out building what were arguably the most reliable luxury vehicles on the planet. 30 years later, despite some cheapening in their interiors and design, Lexus still builds what are the arguably the most reliable luxury vehicles on the planet. So, yes, history often is a guide.

JDR76

Or some of us don’t care about peer pressure and just buy what we like, which just may be a crossover instead of a minivan.

mmarshall

Oh, I agree....I definitely agree. But, on Car Chat, many of us are not typical of millions of vehicle-buyers out there in the real world. Steve's owned at least two minivans that I can remember (Sedona and Pacifica) and, while shopping, considered two others (Odyssey and Sienna). Even with some complaints about each, he saw how efficient they are for the travel-needs of a family....he regularly goes to West Virginia.

tex2670

History of quality vs history of first. Not the same. At all.

mmarshall

Sometimes it is the same. Not always.

tex2670

But what you are not seeing is that only one is relevant. If Chrysler consistently put out cars that are as reliable as Toyota, then, yes, Chrysler would have the history of making the first minivan and also a reliable product. But, again, 99.9% of consumers would only care about the reliability part of the equation.

AJT123

Oh yeah, I was a child then but remember seeing blue smoke from the Chrysler minivans like clockwork after a few years.

mmarshall

Blue smoke, though, is usually an oil-burning issue in the engine, not transmission. Of course, load up the original Voyagers/Caravans with the standard 2.2L Chrysler-built four, which, in the original form, didn't even manage 100 HP, and, yes, the engine could be overtaxed.

As I recall, there was a larger 2.6L Mitsubishi-derived four as an option, but it, too, could be overtaxed...and it was known for reliability issues.

Toys4RJill

I agree with this ^^^. People do not care that Chrysler invented the minivan in the USA. Most people care about value and reliability. The Pacifica and Grand Caravan combined, outsell the Sienna 2-1 I believe, but where Toyota is cashing in is on the price of their Sienna, its starts at about $4500 more than either of the FCA vans. Odyssey is about $4000 more. People, would not buy the FCA vans if they were priced at the same MSRP as the Toyota or Honda, a $4500 lower starting price allows people to put aside their reliability concerns for Chrysler and take the chance on a lower performing model. The fact that Chrysler invented the van, will have influence on consumers purchases.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Just like how motorola invented the first cell phone (did they with the brick?)

When I got my '11sienna se for about $34k, I couldn't believe how the price crept up over the years back then.

Toys4RJill

Yes, the prices have crept up. People in the US have failed to notice how the dollar does not get you as much as it once did. What were your options in 2011 ?

AJT123

Yeah, my bad, I realized you didn't mention engines in your OP, just transmissions.

Everyone hated the GM vans but I liked them, we had a '94 Olds Silhouette....I swear that thing with the 3800 would blow everything in its class away, even some cars.

mmarshall

The Chrysler minivans weren't necessarily known for bad engines, although, as I pointed out from their small size, those engines could be overtaxed. Transmissions, though...there were problems with them for years, particularly the 4-speed Ultradrive. Some of the problems, though, were caused by the bozos at Jiffy Lube putting in the wrong fluids instead of what Chrysler specified for those transmissions. Other problems were simply the use of lighter-duty passenger-car transmissions in heavier minivans....that was the designer's fault.

Ah, yes, the famous GM "Dustbusters". Yes, the 3800, particularly with the supercharger, was a reliable and potent power plant. But one thing that helped with the acceleration in those vans was that those controversially-styled body panels were made of thermoplastic, like on the Saturn cars of that period. That, of course, helped reduce vehicle weight...in addition to being rust/corrosion-proof and dent-resistant. It was odd, though, to sit in the front seats of those minivans and look out over an enormous dash-panel, in front of you, that was the size of a golf course LOL.

AJT123

Interesting. I specifically remember like clockwork once they became a little older, there was blue smoke coming from them. I was a child then, FWIW. I'm referring to the first gen.

Ah yes, perhaps I'm being nostalgic, but I loved that thing. The dash was enormous, so was the windscreen. It had leather and the first power sliding door available in a minivan. And the pickup it had, good lord. If you goosed it too hard accidentally from a standstill you'd lay a foot of rubber. Once on the way to school a cop pulled my mother over and he literally was like "Lady, what kind of engine is in this thing-- I could barely catch you." Then I got blamed for it, bahaha. 3800 was a great engine, if they brought it back updated I'd buy a car with it in a heartbeat.

tex2670

Exactly. And just like 12 years ago, the BlackBerry was THE smartphone. Now, it's been left behind. No one says "I don't want that iPhone or Android because BlackBerry really created this market."