The same argument has been made about certain Lexus models. Time will tell if the Aviator is a sales success or not. Early indications are positive

LOL, okay. You should read/watch some about the Aviator. It’s very differentiated from the Explorer, suspension setup is different, exterior and interior are entirely different.

If I were buying a luxury midsized vehicle right now, it would be at the top of my list. I guess I’m an “idiot”

that last part is rather harsh. maybe someone else thinks that about whatever is it that you drive.

Jill, you and I (among others) have both agreed, in numerous posts, that Lincoln products, today, are far better than just a few years ago. They aren't just Fords anymore with a little fancier trim.

87K is for loaded Black Label versions, Bob...and they come with special custom interiors and added customer perks, for one's convenience, that go over and above simply the vehicle itself. But, as you note, one does not have to spend that kind of money.....Aviators start at 51K, though, without options, they might have to be special-ordered.

May I suggest, if you have not done so, that you go to the nearest Ford/Lincoln dealership (not all Ford shops also handle Lincolns) and compare the interiors, styling, and amenities for yourself? Once having done so, I think your opinion of the differences between the two of them will be a little less harsh.

Never miss a chance to be offended. Talk is cheap. I'll believe that when you buy one. But you won''t. I'll never have to worry about the "i just bought a $90k Lincoln Aviator" post from you because it won't ever happen. When you prove me wrong, I'll apologize.

No, that's EXACTLY what the Aviator is. The fancy might be a little more fancy than in the past, but it is still Ford. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I paid almost $90k for a Lincoln Aviator.

And the people arguing that were correct. Lots of Lexus are really premium Toyota, just like this is premium Ford.

Early indications are that both autos are having major quality issues.

https://www.thecarconnection.com/new...incoln-aviator

Deliveries of the redesigned 2020 Ford Explorer and Lincoln Aviator are being hampered by extensive quality control problems which have forced the company to divert thousands of vehicles to secondary facilities for inspection and repair.

Ford's corporate office will not comment on the nature of the problems plaguing both cars, but insiders at the company's assembly plants described problems ranging from non-functioning air conditioning systems to transmissions that will not shift properly, according to an extensive report from the Detroit Free Press.

It's not unusual for a handful of cars to fail standard quality control checks, often for minor issues like mismatched trim pieces or wheels, or missing (or incorrect) badges, but what Ford employees are describing is a vehicle repair queue numbering in the thousands. The repairs are holding up deliveries of both the Aviator and Explorer from the Chicago facility where they are manufactured.

“From what I’ve seen on what they call ‘money cars,’ or cars which are done, I would say they’re currently getting maybe 80 to 100 cars (per shift) finished. Still, with somewhere north of 12,000 cars needing repairs, doing the math, you can see this is a huge project and a huge expense for Ford,” an employee at Ford's Flat Rock Assembly facility in Michigan told the Detroit Free Press. According to the same employee, Ford has even outsourced some of the repair work to Roush, one of the better-known tuning companies affiliated with Ford.

In addition to the aforementioned transmission and air conditioning issues, employees also said some Explorers are having their chassis X-rayed to check for defects, and some Aviators are arriving with failed adaptive suspensions. Ford's plant employees say a quality control issue of this magnitude is "highly unusual."

With Ford scrambling to triage repairs of both vehicles, another problem has started creeping up: mileage. Brand-new vehicles rolling off the Flat Rock assembly line will often have up to 10 pre-delivery miles on their odometers; some Explorers and Aviators are racking up hundreds before they're trucked off to dealers due to the logistics involved in getting them repaired and validated.

Thousands of Explorers and Aviators reportedly remain on delivery hold and Flat Rock has added extra shifts to help with repair and re-assembly.

Contrary to what sources said, a Ford spokeswoman told the Free Press the repairs were not unusual.

More on what appears to be a disaster in the making for Ford/Lincoln.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ry/2292795001/

Did you see the other reply I left? Base Aviators start in the low 50s.

I agree that I wouldn't pay almost 90K for one, either...even a Black Label version. But I still (respectfully) disagreee that the current Aviator is merely a redone current Explorer. Today, with (most) Lincoln products, it's apples and oranges....not apples and slightly fancier apples, like in the past.

And, BTW, I'm eagerly awaiting the Lincoln Corsair introduction. Standard versions will start just under 36K....it will appeal to those who don't need a vehicle the size of the Aviator. In fact, if I was in the market for a nice SUV (which I'm currently not).....that will probably rank high on the list, although I'll withhold any further comments until I actually see it.

And you never miss a chance to post something gruff and offensive. You have zero respect for anybody's viewpoint but your own.

I'm not looking for a new car at all right now, but if I were and decided to get something in that category I absolutely would seriously consider a Lincoln Aviator. I would seriously consider a Navigator too. I am considering an Explorer or a Expedition to replace our van, but I don't want to spend Aviator or Navigator money for one.

Bottom line is most Aviators won't be $90k. The one I spec'ed was about $72k, and I think that's a very reasonable price for the vehicle. Don't forget it will be $10k off in short order.

Not necessarily a disaster. First-year teething problems are common with many automakers....they come and go.

Hahaha. I like you and consider you my friend. Your PM messages are always a delight. Lincoln was superb way back in the day. We recently saw a 70s Lincoln and we were educated on the use of how many vacuum lines they used for features. Everyone has their likes and dislikes I guess, some of the 90s and 00s were liked by lots of people. Town Car was one of them.

Don't want to get too far off-topic, but, despite being a delight to drive (by my standards), one of the Town Car's big shortcomings was the RWD-only setup which was less than ideal for some winter conditions. That was addressed by the successor FWD/AWD MKS and Continental....which also handled much better. Another big weak point on the Town Car was the unreliable air-suspension, which constantly failed. Ford even had a factory-kit for owners who wanted to cover the whole system back to conventional springs, avoiding the cost of non-warranty repairs.

Several Lincolns, though, after that period (Bob04 is correct on at least a couple of them) were nothing but Fords with a little more trim on them....the best examples were probably the 1Gen Edge/MKX and the Ford F-150/Lincoln LT pickup. The 2Gen MKX was a vast improvement, and the Aviator, even more so.

Remember several years ago when I reviewed the top-dog version of the 2Gen MKX, with its (then) 60K price tag, and several people here complained about that being an absurd price for a mid-sized Lincoln SUV? That, of course, pales in comparison to today's Black Labels.

Lincoln REALLY lost their way in the 80's, 90s and 2000s. Its not that people didn't "like them", my dad had a 1990 Lincoln Continental, but that car was a pile compared to the german and japanese competition of the day. Compare a 1990 LS400 to a 1990 Lincoln Continental. He liked his Lincoln fine, but once he got into a foreign car that was it, there was just no comparison. A lot of people had a lot of loyalty to Lincoln and Cadillac back then, and that slowly eroded as they experienced better foreign vehicles. That gap just widened as you got into the 2000s and the 2010s. Those poor products relative to their competitors is what destroyed what prestige they had left.

We have seen two products from Lincoln that are really world class, the Navigator and the Aviator. Hopefully its the start of a trend. Thats still only 2 products that don't feel like warmed over Fords.