Consumers demanded the mirroring service, yes. Consumers aren't demanding car companies replace their whole infotainment system to just a mirroring service though. That's the difference.

It doesn't matter if the vast majority of them are iOS or Android. What happens when you run into a situation where someone doesn't have iOS or Android? Should they be forced to change their phone in order to use their car's infotainment system? Should car companies have to include all mirroring services? The point is - if car companies restrict themselves to just iOS and Android based infotainment systems only, they'll working for the phone companies and forcing consumers to buy specific phones.
This is why I believe a standard infotainment system is still a must with mirroring features on top. This is how you cover everything. You give people a choice - not force them.

Can't design to lowest? Sure. You have to design what majority of the people buys. All phones right now are designed with iOS and Android in mind. Or they are mostly touch-screen because that's what people want. That's the majority of phone design because that's the normal market. But you do know there are phones on sale still that aren't touch screen nor iOS/Android, right?
You suggested the car industry will eliminate the whole infotainment system and push only iOS/Android mirroring services. You still need design something for the other market or people will be force to change.
Again - this why car companies will still come with standard infotainment systems on top of mirroring services. This is how you fulfill the whole market.

You are more likely to lose your phone than your keyless entry key that you never take out of your pocket.

Car's don't have CD players in them? Lol. Cars have CD players in them still. Because this is a Lexus forum - Lexus still offer CD players.

Lastly - you are suggesting that all cars will have mirroring services as the main infotainment system right? You know why the market won't bend to that? It'll make all car infotainment systems the same. That means - a Toyota Corolla will have the same functioning infotainment system as a Rolls Royce. How would luxury consumers feel?
That's actually one of the few biggest issues BimmerPost consumers feel about Apple Car Play. They are abandoning the amazing iDrive to use Apple Car Play essentially making their BMW system look like another run of the mill car that is using Apple Car Play.

Yeah. Nissan is about to make Android their OS for infotainment system. I can see a few companies doing it but Steve was suggesting all companies.

Its just not possible for luxury companies to follow this path. Imagine a Mercedes Benz S-Class having the same OS as a Nissan? People in the luxury market will be annoyed. This is why, within the same autoblog article that reported this, they were talking about how BMW and Mercedes Benz are DOUBLING DOWN on investments on their own systems.
The thing is - luxury companies need to do this to divide the line between luxury cars and normal cars.

 

We'll just have to wait and see which one of us is right.

Lexus vehicles still have CD players, but they're rapidly being phased out in vehicles as a whole. Our Pacifica has no CD player, our 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee had no CD player. Lexus vehicles have totally phased out CD changers, and now they only offer one slot CD players.

Lexus is really behind the times with tech, they were the last company to abandon tape decks too.

Read up on it:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmci.../#29ded1d92e88

http://www.startribune.com/sound-adv...ump/442474653/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/commu...did/355861002/

 

I know CD players will fade off eventually but your statement states present tense. IE: You claimed cars don't have CD players.
Are you talking about present day or future tense?

Lexus ES 2019 still has a CD player.
Audi A4 still has a CD player.
C300 still has a CD player.
There's still plenty of cars with CD players - its not just Lexus. However - overtime - its obvious they'll fade off the design of CD players like cassettes.

 

I agree smartphone mirroring is rapidly becoming an almost essential option. The release of iOS12 on Monday opened up CarPlay to third party navigation apps and not just Apple Maps which isn't as good as the competition. Google Maps (the latest v5.0 release) is already CarPlay compatible and Waze is right behind it (it's already in beta). Smart traffic-aware, police-aware, hazard-aware navigation leveraging constantly updated map data and it's all controllable as though it were OEM. Keep in mind every car we have which has CarPlay or Android Auto also comes with its own factory infotainment/nav system, so the phone mirroring is optional.

As for 360 cameras, we have those on a few of our cars. As others say, it's a feature we really like and would (and have) paid more for. It's genuinely useful, particularly in unfamiliar locations.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say smartphone mirroring is becoming an essential option. Not at least in the luxury car market - its not. I would agree its an essential option for non-luxury car companies and car companies with horrible systems.

If you check MB forums, Bimmerpost, and Audiworld, the main commentary there is that they rarely use Apple Car Play or Android Auto Auto.
The reasons they listed are:
Apple Car Play can't function with MBUX. So you can't move the Apps around, customize stuff, and move maps to gauge area.
BMW iDrive is better than Apple Car Play.
Virtual Cockpit is not function-able with Apple Car Play.
At the same time - all luxury brands offer live traffic/weather updates.

Another example: for the new Lexus ES. Amazon Alexa is non function-able with Apple Car Play. Alexa will only do map commands for the in-house Lexus system because its embedded into that.

The problem is - its still a mirroring service and a lot of luxury car owners have trouble using it over their more advance and luxurious in-house system.

 

The thing some here are missing is this:

Controls for your seats, climate control etc don't deprecate and don't get any less useful or functional over time.

Your infotainment sources and navigation systems etc do deprecate and will get less useful/functional over time.

Phone mirroring via CarPlay/Android Auto is only a supplement for the latter.

Luxury car makers are still going to have you adjust features and settings via their own UI. They are just offering extra options for your infotainment source and nav. No one is saying mirroring makes every car the same. If you think that, you can't have seen how CarPlay/AA work because if you had you'd never come to that conclusion. And yes, I have a BWW - and CP doesn't replace iDrive, it just gives you some alternatives.

 

If we are talking about internals that people will never know about, then yes, no one will care what OS you use.

Here's an example: All Android phones, despite the brand, all look about the same. Even with a reskin, they have that generic look to it. If this level of stuff hits the car market, that makes all infotainment system the same almost. This wouldn't happen in the luxury market because luxury consumers demand uniqueness. They want something that is exclusive to themselves. This is why Audi has Virtual Cockpit and MB has MBUX. These are infotainment systems that are 10x more advance and has more custom ability than Apple Car Play. In a mind of a luxury car buyer - they don't want their infotainment system to look like something that is on a non-luxury brand.
This is why - if you go to German car forums, majority of those car owners don't really use Apple Car Play. The ones that do use it, only use it in specific situations - like Music.

 

 

Ah Android Auto and Apple Carplay, my favorite topic

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-...bile/worldwide

Android market share - 76.82%
iOS market share - 20.45%
All other OS - 2.14%

The Germans certainly have more refined infotainment offerings, but Lexus infotainment is pretty bottom of the barrel stuff

 

I have used Apple Car Play on a Camaro SS rental. The only reason I used it was the car came with no navigation.
I have used Apple Car Play on a fully loaded C300 rental from Turo. I used for fun to see what its like. I stopped using after a few minutes and optioned for the regular MB system.
I have used Apple Car Play on my friend's BMW 340i. Same thing - I rather iDrive.

I still came to the conclusion that Apple Car Play is useless on a car with a good infotainment system.

Yes, the Apple Car Play is a good addition to cars. I never said it wasn't. Its obviously good when you keep your car and your car gets old - then you'll be able to use Apple Car Play. Its obviously good if your car's standard infotainment is crap.

But my point was - and I was strictly talking about the fact that some people think having or not having Apple Car Play is a dealer breaker on a car or the people that use Apple Car Play only and refuse to use their car's system. I'm pretty much arguing that Apple Car Play is not a replacement.

Of course - Apple Car Play can't replace BMW iDrive. My point is - if iDrive is already good and does everything I need and its better than the Apple Car Play, why would I pay extra to BMW to get Apple Car Play?

 

I see your points Bippu. I agree with most of them. I also agree CP/AA isn't a deal breaker. Where it does shine, though is the ability to leverage an application like Waze through your car's display. There's no doubt current generation navigation from the likes of BMW/MB/Lexus and Audi are better than they've ever been, but you get better/more up to date and more useful info on traffic conditions, optimum route and where CHP are hiding out etc from apps like Waze. Also, BMW for example pushes over the air map updates maybe 4 times a year, with Google/Waze you're always using the most complete content (plus it's obviously easier to add new features to the app and to the phone OS than it is to update your vehicle software).

 

A lot of cars don't have CD players. Like I said, I've owned two cars in the last 4 years that don't/didnt have CD players.

If Apple CarPlay wasn't an essential option in the marketplace why did Lexus do a complete 180 on it in the course of 2 years?

I think you need to separate what you care about with what the consumer in general want, I.e the 360 camera too. I don't care about Apple CarPlay...but by and large consumers do...which is why automakers offer it.

 

Majority of my point is targeted at consumer that think CP/AA are deal-breakers. There are so many, so many, that knock on Lexus for not offering Apple Car Play. There are quite of bit of non-BMW owners, who never used iDrive, knock on BMW for not offering Android. There is no debate - iDrive is better than Apple Car Play. However - for the Lexus system, while its not perfect, I think its still better than Apple Car Play.

The thing is - the downsides I see from using 3rd party Apps as your map is that you won't be able to use your standard infotainment system fully.
IE: I believe you can't use the Lexus split screen view with Apple Car Play running.
You can't use Amazon Alexa with it.
iDrive doesn't really function with it.
BMW's new digital gauges will only move your car's navi to the gauges - similar to Audi, MB and Porsche's system - only car's original navi.

This one is more of a personal taste. I think Waze graphics is ugly as hell. It'll look pretty class-less to have Waze App running while driving a 100K Lexus or Mercedes Benz. Because your screen will look like a Honda Civic using Waze.

With that being said - I do understand why some people love Waze and want Apple Car Play and Android Auto to run it so they can use it. I think majority of the time, the stock infotainment system from luxury cars can do everything the CP/AA can do with the exception of getting police info from Waze. Then again - that's avoidable by not speeding.

Yes. A lot of cars don't have CD players. But a lot of cars still do have CD players. I was referencing more to the confusion of your statement, which clearly stated:
Your statement suggests that no cars have CD players in them already. Like I said prior - CD players are still in cars but will eventually fade out. But it'll take some time because some car companies still want to provide for their older generation of buyers. This is why the Lexus ES came with a CD Player (majority of Lexus ES drivers or purchasers are old).

Lexus changed their stance on it due to pressure not because its essential. At the end of the day - its more of having the option for the people that want to use it.
Besides - if its such an essential feature (which you are implying its a must-have feature by that), then why is BMW moving their Apple Car Play as a monthly service feature?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/bm...-an-annual-fee

Like I already said prior - the 360 Camera was based off my personal experience and I dismissed it based off my experiences. Meaning - I said, I wouldn't pay 1K for the option if I had to buy it because I would rarely use it. I never said the feature shouldn't be there. I never said auto-makers shouldn't sell it.
Lastly - for the Apple Car Play, I stand by my statement. Its useless on cars with excellent or good infotainment systems. Statistically and chances are - people will rather use their luxury company's system over the mirror service. With that being said - I also never said automakers shouldn't offer it. They can offer it all they want. I'm just suggesting Apple Car Play is useless on luxury cars and its not a deal breaker or an essential item. That's all. Nothing more - nothing less.