Sulu

Mercedes-Benz (for one) traditionally also has long model life cycles (~ 7 years or greater). But what differentiates the Germans from Lexus is marketing: The Germans are very good at pushing every little tweak and change during the model life cycles (such as staggering engine option introductions).

BippuLexus

I think the OP's rant seems to be unwarranted and seem to border the troll area. Sure - we can disagree on what we like best. Some people like V8, some like the TTV6. But the fact you called it a "rice-burner" - its called for trolling almost. The TTV6 is well received. Its more efficient and it has more power. The thing here is - we have to look at it from a world-market standpoint. The whole emissions are getting stricter and this forces companies to downsize their engines. No matter how much we don't like it - its happening. Not sure why we are blaming Lexus for changing to Turbos while BMW gets a free pass.

Secondly - fit and finish is horrible in the Lexus, you say? That's simply not true. The Lexus fit and finish has been amazing - like its always been. Step into a Mercedes Benz (any Mercedes Benz that isn't an AMG) and start pushing the materials. They all rattle, bend or don't feel solid. Then do the same for Lexus. The Lexus build quality is top notch.

I feel like your "I'm not trying to troll" is actually becoming a troll because everything you said its more of a rant against Lexus. A rant against them because you don't like what's happening to the car company. Here's the best part - if you don't like it, buy something else. We live in a wonderful with competition. Buy a car that fits your needs. Besides - Lexus sales has been up so they don't seem to really care what majority of us (car-heads or car enthusiasts) think anyways. They sell to the mass market like every company.


Dropped the ball with smartphone integration? I'm sorry I don't understand. How? And why?
I personally feel Apple Car Play would be a "nice" feature but its not a life or death feature. Majority of Audi/Porsche owners don't even use it. Same goes for BMW drivers. Essentially - what I'm saying is - if your car has free live traffic and a good infotainment system, Apple Car Play is useless. Unless Waze Maps is a huge deal to you.

Note: I love how everyone faults Lexus for Apple Car Play but not BMW. Why no one faults BMW for not offering it as standard? Hell BMW is about to only offer Apple Car Play as a subscription based service on their APP.

Last thing - you mention "properly" designed infotainment system. While I agree there are some cars that have bad ones, I don't frankly don't think the Lexus system is that bad. I think the knock on the Lexus infotainment system is overrated and baseless at times. I have yet to see someone knock the W205 C Class system? The C300 system was harder to learn and more confusing than the Lexus. But at the end of the day - I learned it and used it on the go.
The problem here is majority people that are complaining about the infotainment systems don't keep for a long time or they don't want to learn it. They expect it to be so easy - they get it a minute.

Toys4RJill

SW17LS

Agreed

I also agree. I will add that the base leather in the LS460 is pretty bad. I had it in my 2015 LS and it really reduced my enjoyment of the car. My 2017 has the semi-aniline leather and its a huge upgrade.

BippuLexus

This is true. While overall I do believe Lexus quality is up, one area that is down specifically could be leather. My friend bought a 07 IS350 back in a day brand new and in about less than maybe 4 years of ownership - the leather seats were showing wear/tear, a lot of wear/tear. I agree - I think if you look pass the the leather smell and the mental block that its fake leather, NuLuxe seems like a better option than real leather at the moment. Chances are majority of people won't know is fake and you'll have newer looking seats for longer without heavy maintenance. Its like the perfect con. Lol. xD

I think Apple Car Play is nice to have too. It'll be helpful if you plan to keep your car long term and don't want to pay for the map update. Or if your vehicle lacks a good infotainment system. But - I just think its crazy to have people complain so much about it like it makes the car less luxurious. Majority of the people in the luxury market lease anyway. Why would you lease a luxury car for 3 years just to use Google maps?

Frog98

I'd have to agree on the some of the plastic in the 2017 LX I had. Having owned a few Lexuses...I really felt the 2002 era RX we had was special. Really well put together with soft touch materials...pleated leather door panels. The "Coach" Edition was super nice with perforated leather. It's build quality was top notch. Another car that seemed special to me was the "Pebble Beach" SC 430. I never even sat in a LS from that era, but I can imagine they were also spectacular. Anyways, the early 2000's Lexuses are my favorite and seemed really special at the time.

Wireless CarPlay and wireless phone charging in my BMW have been amazing! Came in handy today actually. I'd like to see that added to Lexuses, and add more soft touch Luxury materials to the interiors.

COOLIS

At least the base leather in the LS feels more substantial than the leather in an IS, as it should. The leather in the IS, RX, ES, GS and GX feels thin (not sure if that description gets my point across). NuLuxe even has a more substantial feel to it.

SW17LS

mmarshall

Welcome to CL, Therealtru

I strongly agree. Lexus, in general, has been able to keep its smooth-running engines, enviously good repair/reliability record and mirror-finish paint jobs over the years, but, IMO, little else. Sheet metal has gotten noticeably thinner, doors of lighter weight, interior plastics and materials thinner, lighter, and cheaper, sound-insulation material (in some cases) cut back, ride comfort stiffened from firmer suspension and lower-profile tires, and some controls, like the console-mouse, made more gimmicky. And classy, mildly-restrained styling has been replaced by in-your-face boldness. Given the choice, I much prefer those made before the mid-2000s.

Stroock639

the master is here!




lexus certainly brought innovation to nearly every component of the new LS. it's plainly a car meant for human beans with soft flesh, certainly not logs. i imagine any bright young man with a credit score of at least 630 just can't wait to park one in their driveway! people like that tend to be information experts who turn everything they touch into gold, yet have the unpretentiousness and reserve to live in a modest house.

Fizzboy7

There is an old tale that in order for a car to "feel" strong, the doors must weigh a ton and have a certain thunk when closed. This no longer is the case in modern times, nor has been for a good 20 years. Today's cars are built with technology that adds safety systems and equipment, to negate the use of heavy metals. Lighter weight materials save on fuel mileage, production costs, and in most cases, bend and flex in a safer way during a crash. To be judging cars based on how heavy they feel and sound is not accurate advice.

Also, the trend for cars to ride stiffer can be said for most brands, not just Lexus. With a few minor exceptions, this has been the direction things have gone since the 80's. Safer handling is the reason, which is all related to accident avoidance due to more responsive handling.

Stroock639

while i definitely want to just say YEA!!! and agree completely since i always like finding reasons why the things i have are better, i still think toyota does a great job with lexus overall and still consistently topping reliability surveys. while i would love to go back to the 90s lexus approach of the V8 sports couch, mid 2000s lexus did eventually give us the LFA which i can't fault them for AT ALL! it also eventually gave us the spindle grill so for that it nearly entirely cancels out the LFA and all surrounding awesomeness.

i still think they make some of the best cars out there, i just wish they'd focus a bit less on trying to be aggressive and sporty. the engines for the most part (obviously some exceptions) just don't back up the looks. there's nothing that really goes up against like an E400/43, which is a shame since the GS 400 was like the fastest in its class at launch. same as the LS and Supra, both of which now fall behind today's german competition. but like you said, the bean counters caught up.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks for keeping it relatively civil guys.

agree completely.

agree again.

LOL actually they're still cooking, but have become very, uh, experimental... yeah, let's go for the chocolate in the omelette or the hot sauce on cheesecake.

you 'had'? you don't still have it? if so, didn't keep it long!

about the warm feelings for '90's and 2000's lexuses... i think some of it is nostalgia for how they were relative to their competition at the time. my '98 rx began to fall apart and feel very old after about 5 years of hard use. my '00 GS400 leather (driver's seat) began to look and feel pretty bad after 6 years. BUT my '00 GS400 was WAAAY better than my neighbor's BMW 540i at the time, even he was jealous.

weight had to be reduced somehow with govt regs on economy. but with soft power closing doors on my g90 i no longer care about 'solid thunk' when closing a door.

back to the OP...

appreciate the opening disclaimer.

in some ways i agree. i feel like early lexus cars were truly head and shoulders different from toyota models. now i feel like they're not much of a step up. part of that is because toyota models have gotten a lot fancier, but some as you say, is due to obvious cost reduction and decontenting in newer lexus models to meet a price/profitability target supposedly without people 'noticing'. both outside and inside it's evident except on top of the line models like LS500 and LC500. i won't even discuss the GX/LX because they're truly ancient. very 'solid' but hopelessly inefficient.

newer models like the CT and even the NX just don't feel like luxury vehicles to me at all. UX looks to me like it could be a subaru.

agree on beautiful and powerful and also agree that i was shocked when i saw the interior of the early LS460's... the cheap plastic center stack shroud was very disappointing and nothing like a beautiful LS430 UL. i do think the later refresh of LS460 was better, and think the LS500 is a HUGE step up.

anyway, thanks for starting the discussion about how you feel and no, i don't think you're trolling, i think you're sincerely disappointed and are entitled to that opinion.

about quality though, i do think lexus vehicles are still extremely well made and designed to last a long time. quality and luxuriousness are two different things. a 4runner is high quality but it sure ain't luxury

arentz07

Yeah I agree, maybe it's easy to conflate reliability and durability with quality of materials. They aren't the same, which is abundantly obvious in newer Lexus models. None of the Lexuses I have driven recently (mostly IS, NX, ES, RX, loaner-class vehicles...) have had any rattles or felt cheaply built but definitely still had some plasticky bits here and there. So I can understand that being frustrating. I still think the plastic stuff is far better than what you find in a mainstream car however. My 2015 Camry had some pretty tinny door plastics for instance. And the Camry is far from the cheapest car Toyota makes. No such plastic on any Lexus from what I can tell. So maybe my ignorance of older models is bliss.

SW17LS