When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
agree completely. that said, lexus quality is still excellent.
i disagree. people driving lx's are not all mall-shopping, latte drinking soccer moms, many do actually go in rural situations with mud, snow, etc., and those lower hard plastic panels are more durable for boots/shoes/bags/etc coming in and out.
agree completely.
agree again.
LOL actually they're still cooking, but have become very, uh, experimental... yeah, let's go for the chocolate in the omelette or the hot sauce on cheesecake.
you 'had'? you don't still have it? if so, didn't keep it long!
about the warm feelings for '90's and 2000's lexuses... i think some of it is nostalgia for how they were relative to their competition at the time. my '98 rx began to fall apart and feel very old after about 5 years of hard use. my '00 GS400 leather (driver's seat) began to look and feel pretty bad after 6 years. BUT my '00 GS400 was WAAAY better than my neighbor's BMW 540i at the time, even he was jealous.
weight had to be reduced somehow with govt regs on economy. but with soft power closing doors on my g90 i no longer care about 'solid thunk' when closing a door.
back to the OP...
appreciate the opening disclaimer.
in some ways i agree. i feel like early lexus cars were truly head and shoulders different from toyota models. now i feel like they're not much of a step up. part of that is because toyota models have gotten a lot fancier, but some as you say, is due to obvious cost reduction and decontenting in newer lexus models to meet a price/profitability target supposedly without people 'noticing'. both outside and inside it's evident except on top of the line models like LS500 and LC500. i won't even discuss the GX/LX because they're truly ancient. very 'solid' but hopelessly inefficient.
newer models like the CT and even the NX just don't feel like luxury vehicles to me at all. UX looks to me like it could be a subaru.
agree on beautiful and powerful and also agree that i was shocked when i saw the interior of the early LS460's... the cheap plastic center stack shroud was very disappointing and nothing like a beautiful LS430 UL. i do think the later refresh of LS460 was better, and think the LS500 is a HUGE step up.
anyway, thanks for starting the discussion about how you feel and no, i don't think you're trolling, i think you're sincerely disappointed and are entitled to that opinion.
about quality though, i do think lexus vehicles are still extremely well made and designed to last a long time. quality and luxuriousness are two different things. a 4runner is high quality but it sure ain't luxury
On the LX, I can see the door panels need to be made out of something tougher on a LX, but one pet peeve I had was the speaker covers would get marks on them very easily if I hit them with my foot. I'm sure my choice of Parchment interior didn't help
Yeah, I didn't keep the LX very long. It was always a dream vehicle of our family. I thought my Dad in his 70's would enjoy being driven around in it and would be a safe vehicle. But his knee started giving him problems, so a sedan made better sense to get in and out of. Honestly, I have learned I don't enjoy driving large vehicles and like the stability of a sedan at speed. So I considered a LS, but it was too big and long. So I jumped into a BMW 5 series for now. I'd like to see a new midsized premium sedan from Lexus. Like LS luxury in a midsize.
I would venture to say almost nobody who bought and drives a new LX is taking it offload and in rural situations, they're used just like any other luxury SUV, and sadly the LX's interior is worst in class. No other vehicle in that class has materials like that in those places.
offroad doesn't have to mean rock crawling through cactus etc.
i know a lot of horse owners/riders and have been to way too many horse shows (but i'm better now ), and landcruisers and lx's are very popular. riders get in/out in their boots and britches and bring hay, mud, horse doo doo, etc. with them. and many horse shows are in muddy, dusty, grassy conditions and uneven dirt roads.
i know a lot of horse owners/riders and have been to way too many horse shoes (but i'm better now ), and landcruisers and lx's are very popular. riders get in/out in their boots and britches and bring hay, mud, horse doo doo, etc. with them. and many horse shows are in muddy, dusty, grassy conditions and uneven dirt roads.
Glad you've recovered LOL
The Navigator is really popular at horse shows too, and it doesn't have hard plastic materials in those areas. For people who want that, theres the Expedition which does. For people who prefer Toyota, the Land Cruiser having hard plastics in those areas is another story. Hard plastics in those areas on the LX are not for "durability", its cheap, cost savings...
The LX interior is not at the same level as its competition is the point. If you sit in a Navigator, Escalade, Range Rover, MB GLS etc etc all their interiors are a notable step up from the LX when it comes to material quality.
And remember, I do a fair amount if "light roading" in my Lexus LS, a vehicle with no hard touch plastics anywhere. I go down to southern WV a couple times a year and I'm in and out of the car back at cabins with buddy feet and dust everywhere...those high quality materials clean right up.
I thought about this very topic this AM in the traffic I was stuck in. Maserati Ghibli in front. Lexus RX to my side. Lexus LS460 to the left of the Ghibli. Lexus ES behind me.
For one, Lexus is commonplace, no problem there, people for the most part want reliable cars. Next thing, what's with the L shaped lighting? Lastly, the Ghibli looked as though it had a serious exhaust system, I could make out what appears to be actuators on each muffler.
Lexus does not strike me as serious. To be fair, the competition seems to have diluted its marques as well--but they still have so-called performance divisions and people still seem to passionately seek out those brands, for whatever reasons. They can even put out 4 cyl turbo FWD based vehicles, and people still want them. The only analogy I can make is again the car co. Lexus is like a Paris trained chef who's not interested in cooking anymore. It was no joke in fall 1989, the cars were so good that BMW accused Toyota of selling the LS400 below cost (not true but when you are worried you attack). When's the last time BMW accused Toyota Motor of anything?
I've been told by many of our techs and parts guys at my dealerhip that the older cars were better built than the newer cars. That's not to say they are junk as they are still good quality vehicles.
More stuff breaks on these cars now than they used to but they are still solid cars.
As someone who owns a 93 SC300, I thought the interior was very poorly made. They just fall to pieces from my experience. I do have a 99 ES300 and 05 LS430 that seem to have way better built interiors. I've never seen an old interior fall apart like that.
I would say the LS430, LX470, GX470, SC430, and second generation GS were the best built cars I've driven from Lexus.
I've been told by many of our techs and parts guys at my dealerhip that the older cars were better built than the newer cars. That's not to say they are junk as they are still good quality vehicles.
I think its true for all old cars though. The issue with a lot of newer cars is that there is so much tech and that's giving cars more reason to break and have more things to break.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying tech is bad - tech is good. It just depends how much tech, what kind of tech it is, and etc...
Example: A SUV having power hatch open/close and kick foot open hatch is a good feature. Likely - if you are an SUV owner, you carry a lot of stuff, have kids and you know them kids - they got a lot of stuff they wanna bring on trips.
But for a car, like the C300, to have power trunk open/close and kick foot open trunk - that's pretty useless. Its a compact luxury sedan and chances are you won't be using the trunk for so much things you need power close and hand frees open. This gives a car more chance to break.
I also think HUD and 360 Camera are useless.
Especially the 360 camera. Its sold as you can see all around you so when you park tight spaces - it'll be easier. Truthfully - if you need the 360 Camera to help you park, the parking job will still be subpar at best. I feel like the usefulness of the back-up camera became such a major hit someone in management was like - "dude lets do a 360 Camera!"
And I'm still one of those people that park super far away from people and then get out of the car to double check everything before shutting off the car.
I also want to add that if it ever feels like Japanese cars are slowing the release of tech - its because they probably are. With a reputation of reliability - they'll probably want to slow down the release of tech till its perfected or more mainstream to hold reliability.
I'd like to see them do both. One doesn't have to eliminate the other.
I wanna see like 200 super limited $250k+ CT F's that are with the 5.0 , all carbon fiber body, and race spec just because. Lexus needs to have fun like that.
I think its true for all old cars though. The issue with a lot of newer cars is that there is so much tech and that's giving cars more reason to break and have more things to break.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying tech is bad - tech is good. It just depends how much tech, what kind of tech it is, and etc...
Example: A SUV having power hatch open/close and kick foot open hatch is a good feature. Likely - if you are an SUV owner, you carry a lot of stuff, have kids and you know them kids - they got a lot of stuff they wanna bring on trips.
But for a car, like the C300, to have power trunk open/close and kick foot open trunk - that's pretty useless. Its a compact luxury sedan and chances are you won't be using the trunk for so much things you need power close and hand frees open. This gives a car more chance to break.
I also think HUD and 360 Camera are useless.
Especially the 360 camera. Its sold as you can see all around you so when you park tight spaces - it'll be easier. Truthfully - if you need the 360 Camera to help you park, the parking job will still be subpar at best. I feel like the usefulness of the back-up camera became such a major hit someone in management was like - "dude lets do a 360 Camera!"
And I'm still one of those people that park super far away from people and then get out of the car to double check everything before shutting off the car.
I also want to add that if it ever feels like Japanese cars are slowing the release of tech - its because they probably are. With a reputation of reliability - they'll probably want to slow down the release of tech till its perfected or more mainstream to hold reliability.
360 cameras are incredible. I had it on my last car and don't have it on my GS and I miss it every day. I would argue it's the most valuable feature. Never having to guess where parking lines are, how close you are to curbs, driveways, etc. is especially helpful in tight urban environments. 360 cameras are a valuable tool for even the best of drivers.
I hope nobody is taking this thread seriously. LS500 sounding like a rice burner? Lol ok man, you win.
People with old things will always find innovative ways to complain about new things. Lexus has improved in so many ways, fit and finish is just fine. Lower end segment cars like IS and UX will naturally have lower quality materials to make financial sense. If you want better materials, save up for the flagship models or go to a brand that satisfies you while writing a letter to Lexus why you did so and how they can earn your loyalty back.
The SC300 was a flagship for it's time but now its a different time and its an old car with old technology, beaten up paint, leather, and requires large investments for certain repairs and replacements.
How much does anybody here want to bet that if given the choice of a brand new Lexus today over the old SC300, the OP would take it with no hesitation? You bet your *** he would take that ugly rice burner of an LS500 if it meant he had to sell his soul and delete this thread.
If things were as bad at Lexus HQ as the OP claims, they would not have the loyalty numbers that are attributed to their brand.
360 cameras are incredible. I had it on my last car and don't have it on my GS and I miss it every day. I would argue it's the most valuable feature. Never having to guess where parking lines are, how close you are to curbs, driveways, etc. is especially helpful in tight urban environments. 360 cameras are a valuable tool for even the best of drivers.
Guess where the parking line is? What do you mean? Are you talking about pull in parking spots? If you pull into a spot, or in my case, I usually reverse in, I never guess where the parking line is. I can clearly see the lines while reversing and with the back up camera as well. Even if you do just do the simple pull in, you'll see the lines going into the spot.
Curbs, for paralleling parking? I would argue reverse tilt side mirror is the best for that. Which again makes 360 camera sort of redundant.
One thing I do admit what 360 camera are good for is the front facing camera. Which can allow you to see how far you away from the curb when you pull into a spot. But to each their own - 360 camera is one of those features I would never pay over 1K for. Its just not worth it.
Guess where the parking line is? What do you mean? Are you talking about pull in parking spots? If you pull into a spot, or in my case, I usually reverse in, I never guess where the parking line is. I can clearly see the lines while reversing and with the back up camera as well. Even if you do just do the simple pull in, you'll see the lines going into the spot.
Curbs, for paralleling parking? I would argue reverse tilt side mirror is the best for that. Which again makes 360 camera sort of redundant.
One thing I do admit what 360 camera are good for is the front facing camera. Which can allow you to see how far you away from the curb when you pull into a spot. But to each their own - 360 camera is one of those features I would never pay over 1K for. Its just not worth it.
You've clearly never used one before. If your upcoming C43 has the 360 cam, I guarantee you'll change your mind and begin to sing praise. Your statements/questions make it clear you've never owned a vehicle with such a system and experienced it in a variety of scenarios over the course of a few years of ownership.
09-13-18, 01:00 PM
