My 02 ES300 is a phenomenal car. Runs like a champ with 177k. I personally think the 02-06 body style were the prettiest, most well built ES out of all of them.

 

Seriously I don't know what he's going on about, if anything, the fit and finish has improved over time with more modern manufacturing techniques. Our RX is as solid as the day we bought it with no issues at all, and is incredibly quiet and serene.

Also, if you work 'inside', why would you need to ask this forum what happened? Wouldn't there be internal audits with factual data to answer this question?

 

He's probably compairing Lexus to Lexus.

I don't like this trend to cheap out expensive cars actually going on. It's not because the market is going crazy and quality is going into the sewer that Lexus should follow. As I discovered the Lexus LS400 a few times ago, I was amazed that this level of quality ever existed. Some reknowned mechanics, that deal with Mercs and Rolls eveyday had great resepect for this car. I don't think it's the same with the actual models.

 

 

I think a lot of what is being said in this thread is much ado about nothing. This is just people who do not like the way or direction Lexus is going. Being stuck in the past with former Nostalgia. Perhaps not wanting to pay current modern day prices either.

-personally speaking, I am not supportive of the direction Lexus is going. I do not particularly love the front ends of modern Lexus models and the the remote touch interface is by far the dumbest idea in the history of Lexus. The faster they rid of the RTI, the better! Yes, it is possible to look through any Lexus and find fault.

-opposite of crying about a few pieces of plastic here or there. Lexus car are better than ever from a power train perspective. No more timing belts. Torsen AWD on all their cars and full time SUVs. More competitive towing options than in the past. More options for the interior colors than in the past. Much more interesting designs. I would say Toyota has created a unique identity for their Lexus division IMO.

 

I thought about this very topic this AM in the traffic I was stuck in. Maserati Ghibli in front. Lexus RX to my side. Lexus LS460 to the left of the Ghibli. Lexus ES behind me.

For one, Lexus is commonplace, no problem there, people for the most part want reliable cars. Next thing, what's with the L shaped lighting? Lastly, the Ghibli looked as though it had a serious exhaust system, I could make out what appears to be actuators on each muffler.

Lexus does not strike me as serious. To be fair, the competition seems to have diluted its marques as well--but they still have so-called performance divisions and people still seem to passionately seek out those brands, for whatever reasons. They can even put out 4 cyl turbo FWD based vehicles, and people still want them. The only analogy I can make is again the car co. Lexus is like a Paris trained chef who's not interested in cooking anymore. It was no joke in fall 1989, the cars were so good that BMW accused Toyota of selling the LS400 below cost (not true but when you are worried you attack). When's the last time BMW accused Toyota Motor of anything?

 

I don't care for the direction they're going either, but I don't see "quality" really as one of their issues. The downmarket cars have always had compromises in material quality etc, thats nothing new. Those same compromises exist in their competitors also. I think some of the material choices they've made are silly, and not as well hidden by design as they used to be. I think its undeniable that they make high quality products though.

Having had the RTI now for 5 years, I don't really see the big deal. I don't even think about it.

I think theres truth to this.

 

The ONLY thing that I'm stuck in the past though is the glory days of the 1998 GS400 where it was wicked and touted as "The Worlds' Fastest Production Sedan."

I like their new offerings with the suvs, RCF, GSF, LS, and LC.

I do love the sportiness that Lexus has inject into the brand (in this generation) now they are no longer couch-mobiles, but they are still too frugal in their hp department.

Other than that, "much ado about nothing" for me also.

 

Isn't this notion of being stuck in the past a cop-out? The examples are countless. But say you have a 2017 car with a carbon fiber driveshaft, and for 2018 it's gone and the price went up. Yet, you are not allowed to point out that 2017 was > 2018 lol That's being swindled and *****!

I agree for the most part. I think only positive comments should be allowed when it comes to Toyota and Lexus. Lexus is the best car co. in the world, and just keeps getting better and better. Excelsior!

 

Joking aside, I don't think anyone is (or at least, I HOPE no one is) saying Lexus is infallible. Just, it would seem that the complaints are a bit exaggerated. Yes, they have shifted priorities over time, but they have largely remained the most reliable brand while becoming not-boring in the process.

And I agree with SW17LS, RTI takes a few days to learn, but in practice it isn't bad for day to day use.

 

The GX absolutely feels cheaper after its redesign.

I think one area where Lexus quality has declined is their leather seats in some models. The leather in the 02-03 ES300 before it was perforated for the ES330 was like butter. The 2007-2012 ES leather was crap. The leather is the LS has been good since 98 onward. IS leather was/is crap. Nuluxe is almost better than leather in some of the lower end Lexus models, as it shows less wear.

 

Completely agree. I like it as well. You don't really need to use it that often while driving and there are numerous ways of doing a task through steering wheel controls & instrument cluster display or via RTI. On a 12.3-inch screen, it just looks great. I've learned to just skip over the countless reviews faulting it but I'm finding more video reviews lately where the reviewer actually likes it. Feels like people are beginning to get used to it. It's a steep learning curve because everything is so different compared to the way other manufacturers are doing it, but I like that about Lexus cars. Feels unique.

 

Do you think that the long life cycle of a Lexus model is causing it to fall technically behind it's peers? The engine, the body, tires, and interiors are basics and can only be refined so much.

I think this could be it. Tech + Luxury is the new game in town, and locking in ModelYear2019 for 6-7 years is an eternity.

They dropped the ball on smartphone integration with only two 2019 models with CarPlay. Maybe they're testing it further in the Toyota lineup as proof of concept before it is 'upgraded' to luxury model series. The 7 year life cycles emphasize yearly window dressing on the base model with no changes in major design elements for a LONG time. Safety tweaks, headlight tweaks, etc. Another area of weakness is properly designing a entertainment / car navigation user interface.

 

 

I really like the NuLuxe in my IS. Would rather have it over leather.