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20 years ago, there were a group of people who denied digital photography would ever replace Kodak film.
Likewise, now there are groups of people who think electrification of motor vehicles will never come; not for a long time anyway.
I suspect electrification will come in 5 to 10 years for the luxury market.
It's not that far away.
That's why Toyota Motor Corp isn't too keen to invest heavily in 5GS, nor a 4.0 V8 TT and the like.
An electric motor similar to a Tesla Model S, or the forthcoming 2019 Porsche Mission e - the latter which is targeting 0-60 in 3 seconds - would simply blow any ICE V8 TT away - a V8 TT is actually a dinosaur.
EV especially Tesla Model S is synonymous with performance, so that's why I suspect a GSe EV could easily replace the theoretical 5GS ICE...
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There were people in the 1940's and 1950's who kept saying cars would be flying/hovering by the 90's and 2000's.
Mass electrification of vehicles is something certain politicians and groups want much more then the consumer/public. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Unless there is a big break through with battery technology and there is some huge quick movement to put charging stations at every gas station(nobody is going to want to pay for it) then I don't see electric cars being anything but niche vehicles for people who think they are saving the planet by buying and driving one or think the tech is interesting, certainly not in the US. Hybrid luxury vehicles sell in minuscule numbers, they sold 3 hybrid GS's last month, nobody wants them, a electric GS will be a disaster and they would be lucky to sell 1/10 of what they sell now and they would probably have to spend 10 times more developing a electric GS, a big draw for most American car buyers is the ability to long trips in them and not have to worry about charging it/depleting the battery and being stuck on the side of the road.
The way things are going with Tesla they might not even be around in 5 or 10 years.
There were people in the 1940's and 1950's who kept saying cars would be flying/hovering by the 90's and 2000's.
Mass electrification of vehicles is something certain politicians and groups want much more then the consumer/public. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Unless there is a big break through with battery technology and there is some huge quick movement to put charging stations at every gas station(nobody is going to want to pay for it) then I don't see electric cars being anything but niche vehicles for people who think they are saving the planet by buying and driving one or think the tech is interesting, certainly not in the US. Hybrid luxury vehicles sell in minuscule numbers, they sold 3 hybrid GS's last month, nobody wants them, a electric GS will be a disaster and they would be lucky to sell 1/10 of what they sell now and they would probably have to spend 10 times more developing a electric GS, a big draw for most American car buyers is the ability to long trips in them and not have to worry about charging it/depleting the battery and being stuck on the side of the road.
The way things are going with Tesla they might not even be around in 5 or 10 years.
I believe that EVs from the established automakers will be here sooner rather than later.
Toyota has made breakthroughs with solid-state batteries that will have greater capacity and take less time to charge. Toyota's first EVs will be introduced in 2020.
Toyota has made breakthroughs with solid-state batteries that will have greater capacity and take less time to charge. Toyota's first EVs will be introduced in 2020.
Some makers already offer them, they don't really sell, I am talking about wide acceptance and ownership/buying of electric vehicles. I just don't see it happening for a while, certainly not in the US. They just make very little sense especially for American buyers, hybrids make more sense and they barely sell when it comes to luxury cars.
There were people in the 1940's and 1950's who kept saying cars would be flying/hovering by the 90's and 2000's.
Mass electrification of vehicles is something certain politicians and groups want much more then the consumer/public. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Unless there is a big break through with battery technology and there is some huge quick movement to put charging stations at every gas station(nobody is going to want to pay for it) then I don't see electric cars being anything but niche vehicles for people who think they are saving the planet by buying and driving one or think the tech is interesting, certainly not in the US. Hybrid luxury vehicles sell in minuscule numbers, they sold 3 hybrid GS's last month, nobody wants them, a electric GS will be a disaster and they would be lucky to sell 1/10 of what they sell now and they would probably have to spend 10 times more developing a electric GS, a big draw for most American car buyers is the ability to long trips in them and not have to worry about charging it/depleting the battery and being stuck on the side of the road.
The way things are going with Tesla they might not even be around in 5 or 10 years.
Oh well, at least you agree that an electric vehicle EV like a Tesla Model S or Porsche Mission e will blow an ICE 4.0L V8 Twin Turbo away...
Oh well, at least you agree that an electric vehicle EV like a Tesla Model S or Porsche Mission e will blow an ICE 4.0L V8 Twin Turbo away...
We wont disagree, but you can also agree that an ICE 4L V8 Twin Turbo can refuel in 5 minutes, wont have to stress about which routes to travel, hills, steep hills, headwind, entertaining yourself for an hr or so during charging every 2 to 3 hrs, stressing over the distance between charging stations, forgetting to charge your car at night and end up being late to work the next day, wait 4yrs and hope some crazy guy can finally get around to building your car and etc. You know, the unimportant stuff.
Oh well, at least you agree that an electric vehicle EV like a Tesla Model S or Porsche Mission e will blow an ICE 4.0L V8 Twin Turbo away...
I don't know about every single tt V8, some are blazing fast, and sure it will for smoke most of them for maybe 3 or 4 runs until it can't do full charge anymore or starts over heating and needs to be taken to a place to recharge it for a while where the ICE cars can do it dozens of times over and over and then can be quickly re fueled. On a race track or street race with curves the heavy electric will quickly be outclassed by the ICE cars and all the compromises of those electric vehicles will show themselves.
I don't know about every single tt V8, some are blazing fast, and sure it will for smoke most of them for maybe 3 or 4 runs until it can't do full charge anymore or starts over heating and needs to be taken to a place to recharge it for a while where the ICE cars can do it dozens of times over and over and then can be quickly re fueled. On a race track or street race with curves the heavy electric will quickly be outclassed by the ICE cars and all the compromises of those electric vehicles will show themselves.
Sure, if you race an ICE with an EV, repeatedly accelerating will repeatedly discharge the lithium ion battery - causing the battery pack to overheat, thus activating the safety cut out which limits EV power.
The extra weight of the battery pack also reduces agility, if not cornering grip.
However, on-road, it doesn't seem to affect buyers.
I think buyers are only interested in a few drags.
PS
Put it this way.
20 years ago, people came up with all sorts of excuses to eschew digital cameras, citing that they lacked resolution and lacked color etc.
Today, a similar group eschew EV's.
Look at where Kodak is now.
Ditto ICE's...
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I'd agree with Diesel350's statement, for the most part. I wouldn't say it failed miserably but it definitely tried to be good at everything and had the potential to but didn't really succeed. I traded my fully optioned 2015 Q50S in for my 2018 GS350 F-Sport and drove the 2018 Q50 Red Sport, 2018 Q60 Silver Sport & Red Sport prior to getting my 2018 GS. I was actually pretty positive I was going to be leaving with a 2018 Q50 Red Sport that day, in fact.
"Quicker than any Lexus" is a moot point. Who cares? In real-world every day driving, no one races one another, no one is taking these to any tracks of any sort. Real-world drivability is what matters with these types of vehicles and real-world drivability is where Lexus excels. Simply put, the Infiniti is fun & rewarding to drive fast and aggressively. In the real-world when you're sitting in traffic, going from light to light, driving normally, it's pretty clear you're not in anything that special in that there is no reward factor. Where Lexus differs, or at least speaking to the GS F-Sport, is that it's not only rewarding and fun to drive aggressively but when you're just driving it like a normal person in day to day traffic, there's tons of "wow" moments. Like, "wow, this is smooth" or "wow, this is quiet" or "wow, this feels special." Not a lot of cars reward you when you're driving slow or in traffic and aid in relaxation during those typically high-stress/low-patience times.
The interior is definitely more spacious in the GS, by the way. We had our 2015 GS350 F-Sport simultaneously with the 2015 Q50S. I also had the DAS system in my Q50S and loved it, wouldn't get it without it as it seriously transforms it into a different beast altogether. Never understood all the hate it got and I took it to some pretty windy and fun canyon roads, and thought it handled fantastically... until I drove our GS with rear-wheel steering on that same road. By far the better handling car between the two.
Interesting our views are almost polar opposites on many points; I like my Q50 RS and chose it over a IS-F and GS350 primarily because of it's powertrain.
See, I only drive maybe a few miles a day at most, and my route is fairly fun one, so ya I CARE that it is fun to drive aggressively, because I do drive it hard (avg 12mpg). I also got it without DAS, which is really annoying and scary, especially when you drive it hard (8/10+).
When I drove a GS350F, I felt like I was going to fall asleep in it. Sure, it's definitely more luxurious and comfortable, but I have my RX and FX if I want to cruise around. And yes, the GS handle great but has no power to back it up so ur left hanging wondering what if....
Only the ISF was tempting enough for me to buy, but I wanted something new, preferably turbocharged. That V8 is badass and the handling is top notch, but again it's so disappointing that they discontinued it and left us with a the GS-F, which looks great but was well out of my price range.
As I said, I'm a Toyco loyalist, so if and when they get their act together to build a proper sports car again, I'll be the first in line. Until then, I'm having lots of fun in my (modded) 500hp Q50.
I honestly think its quite sad that Infiniti will be a full hybrid/EV platform from 2020 and beyond. Infiniti, sales as a whole, will go down if they only offer hybrids/EV.
I wouldn't say the Infiniti Q50 fails miserably at everything it does. Its a pretty good and solid luxury sports sedan.
I do want to point put that the Infiniti Q50 3.0T Silver Sport and Red Sport is not cheaper than the Lexus or the older G. The Q is only cheaper depending what kind of deal you get on the Q. People roughly averaging about 5-10K off MSRP for the Q50s.
Secondly. I admit. The Lexus IS never outsold the Infiniti G or Infiniti Q in terms of sales. But sales numbers only tell you a faction of a story and its not evidence a car is better than another car. One of the biggest reasons Infiniti Q/G sell so well is because of their amazing lease and finance deals. Infiniti, at times, offer 0% APR while Lexus never does. Also - Infiniti lease deals are insanely good. As of right now (5/9/2018) - you can lease a Infiniti Q50 3.0T RS for $359/month. While the Lexus IS300 is $299/month and the Lexus GS350 is $479/month. The Infiniti Q50 RS lease is only $60 more than the IS300 and $120 dollars cheaper than the GS350. That is an insane bargain. You can get 400HP for a $60 more per month lease and you save $120 for going with the Q50 RS compared to the GS350.
Lastly, the Infiniti Q50 3.0T SS and 3.0T RS are truly performance monsters. They have underrated engines and are insanely fast. However - they are not as well built or well-equipped as say a Lexus. The quality is on a different level on the Lexus. While I do understand people love the dual-screen layout of the Infiniti, I personally think its out-dated and tacky. The Lexus interior just seems more modern and refined compared to of the Infiniti's interior.
Agree with all your points:
-- Q50 is a bargain, due to lots of sales incentives
- Lexus quality is light years ahead of Infiniti, especially interior
- Dual screen infotainment sucks badly
The VR engine is a jewel and vastly underrated (dynod 300 wheel horsepower stock on standard 3.0t). Really the only reason I got it, because it changes the whole car! It is that good, especially vs NA like the 2GR or VQ.
-- Q50 is a bargain, due to lots of sales incentives
- Lexus quality is light years ahead of Infiniti, especially interior
- Dual screen infotainment sucks badly
The VR engine is a jewel and vastly underrated (dynod 300 wheel horsepower stock on standard 3.0t). Really the only reason I got it, because it changes the whole car! It is that good, especially vs NA like the 2GR or VQ.
I have heard two podcasts. Motorweek and I think it was Autoblog. It was revealed via a GM engineer that the quietest engine and the industry benchmark were the Nissan engines.
I have heard two podcasts. Motorweek and I think it was Autoblog. It was revealed via a GM engineer that the quietest engine and the industry benchmark were the Nissan engines.
The VR30DETT in the Q50 is very quiet...actually too quiet, especially for a sports sedan (and as compared to the VQ before it). Infiniti actually offers a muffler delete to actually get more exhaust noise from it! Lol
-- Q50 is a bargain, due to lots of sales incentives
- Lexus quality is light years ahead of Infiniti, especially interior
- Dual screen infotainment sucks badly
The VR engine is a jewel and vastly underrated (dynod 300 wheel horsepower stock on standard 3.0t). Really the only reason I got it, because it changes the whole car! It is that good, especially vs NA like the 2GR or VQ.
Definitely. The Q50 3.0T Silver Sport is insanely underrated. I have seen stock dynos of it on YouTube where it runs 322 WHP. That's ridiculous because it means the engine is actually 360 HP from the crank. And we haven't gotten to the RS model yet.
As of right now - Infiniti performance is ahead of Lexus. But Lexus quality and interior luxury is ahead of Infiniti.
I'm hoping for a Lexus IS400 with a detuned Lexus LS TTV6 to compete w/ the Infiniti Q50 RS.
Originally Posted by ST430
The VR30DETT in the Q50 is very quiet...actually too quiet, especially for a sports sedan (and as compared to the VQ before it). Infiniti actually offers a muffler delete to actually get more exhaust noise from it! Lol
Correct me if I'm wrong - but don't Infiniti Q50 exhaust note comes from the speaker as well?
The VR30DETT is insanely quiet for a monster of engine.
Definitely. The Q50 3.0T Silver Sport is insanely underrated. I have seen stock dynos of it on YouTube where it runs 322 WHP. That's ridiculous because it means the engine is actually 360 HP from the crank. And we haven't gotten to the RS model yet.
As of right now - Infiniti performance is ahead of Lexus. But Lexus quality and interior luxury is ahead of Infiniti.
I'm hoping for a Lexus IS400 with a detuned Lexus LS TTV6 to compete w/ the Infiniti Q50 RS.
Don't take my IS400!!! Me want first!
Originally Posted by BippuLexus
Correct me if I'm wrong - but don't Infiniti Q50 exhaust note comes from the speaker as well?
The VR30DETT is insanely quiet for a monster of engine.
There is an option to disable it, fortunately. And yes, the VR is great so far...to bad it's in the Infinity (and this is coming from an owner)!
Here is BMW's i5 EV [with similar dimensions to current 5 Series], and due for release in 2021.
It is aiming for 0-60 in under 4 seconds, with a range of 600 km [nearly 400 miles].
By 2025, BMW will have released 25 different EV models.
Thus a GSe EV replacement for the traditional GS powered by ICE is not totally out of the question.
20 years ago, there were a number of people who could not let go of traditional Kodak film, and they found all sorts of problems with digital photography.
Today, a similar situation exists with traditional ICEV's vs EV's, and this is understandable.
Here is BMW's i5 EV [with similar dimensions to current 5 Series], and due for release in 2021.
By 2025, BMW will have released 25 different EV models.
Thus a GSe EV replacement for the traditional GS powered by ICE is not totally out of the question.
20 years ago, there were a number of people who could not let go of traditional Kodak, and they found all sorts of problems with digital photography.
Today, a similar situation exists with traditional ICEV's vs EV's, and this is understandable.
A GS electric is definitely not out of the question. More and more companies are starting to offer electric models at no extra cost. The case before was the electric or hybrid models would cost extra for being electric and hybrid - not anymore though.
05-09-18, 10:38 AM
