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Is Tesla just months away from a total collapse?

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Old May 3, 2018 | 09:10 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Sulu
I would not call that eccentricity, I would call it arrogance.

Are the analysts finally realizing that Tesla stock is very much overpriced?
I'm a huge Elon Musk fan but I'm starting to wonder if he should be in a different role in the company or at least hand off the true "running" of the company to a true business man/woman. He's an innovator and a visionary. That doesn't mean he is also a great business man. In my line of work I deal with physicians on a daily basis. All of them are intelligent, most of them are clinically very capable, yet few of them are above average business people. Being good at everything is very hard, and IMHO completely over-rated. Be great at a couple of things and never deviate.
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Old May 3, 2018 | 12:15 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by jrmckinley
That definitely wasn't click bait. It absolutely was down 5% after hours... it started off down 1% or so during the call and then when Musk started dodging questions it sharply moved down to 5%. And it's down almost 8% so far today. So...
Musk certainly has his shortcomings (and I'll be the first to admit it). But I don't think it's fair to blame him if investors, with Tesla stock, want to act like 5-year-old kids going after a dangling candy bar. If they are so hyper-sensitive that they are literally bidding the stock-price up and down by the minute, depending on how he answers questions from reporters simply on the whim of the moment, then, IMO, it might be time to go see a shrink and get some Prozac.
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Old May 3, 2018 | 01:10 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Musk certainly has his shortcomings (and I'll be the first to admit it). But I don't think it's fair to blame him if investors, with Tesla stock, want to act like 5-year-old kids going after a dangling candy bar. If they are so hyper-sensitive that they are literally bidding the stock-price up and down by the minute, depending on how he answers questions from reporters simply on the whim of the moment, then, IMO, it might be time to go see a shrink and get some Prozac.
Maybe they are sensitive because every single time Musk promises something, it does not happen. Tesla is always late on making good on their production plans and profitability.

Cutting off analysts because they want to clarify when is Model 3 production going to become profitable should be against the law. They are not asking stupid questions, they are trying to find out what the stock should be valued.
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Old May 3, 2018 | 02:02 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by spwolf
Maybe they are sensitive because every single time Musk promises something, it does not happen. Tesla is always late on making good on their production plans and profitability.

Cutting off analysts because they want to clarify when is Model 3 production going to become profitable should be against the law. They are not asking stupid questions, they are trying to find out what the stock should be valued.
That's at least partly my point. Musk does not have a crystal ball, and cannot state with impunity when or if that is going to happen. So, at least IMO, investors reacting like up-and-down roller-coasters in momentary fits is certainly not going to solve anything, either. The wise move, IMO, would probably be to go home, think about it, talk to one's broker or financial-adviser, sleep on it, and then make a decision with a good cup of coffee in the morning.
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Old May 3, 2018 | 03:37 PM
  #95  
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If you're an investor expecting a new car company to deliver everything they promise on time then you are an idiot.
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Old May 4, 2018 | 11:34 AM
  #96  
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What I expect is a reasoned estimate of future performance. If instead you consistently under-deliver then I conclude you either are intentionally lying or really bad at forecasting. Either explanation does not instill confidence.
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Old May 6, 2018 | 01:31 PM
  #97  
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not trying to make this political but musk is a bit like the donald trump of car execs... he's brash, does anything for press, is active on twitter, and a little erratic. but also brilliant, rich, and very successful.
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Old May 6, 2018 | 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
That's at least partly my point. Musk does not have a crystal ball, and cannot state with impunity when or if that is going to happen. So, at least IMO, investors reacting like up-and-down roller-coasters in momentary fits is certainly not going to solve anything, either. The wise move, IMO, would probably be to go home, think about it, talk to one's broker or financial-adviser, sleep on it, and then make a decision with a good cup of coffee in the morning.
he certainly knows what volume is needed for Model 3 to become profitable, problem is that it is likely not a good information so he chooses not to share it.

Investors are investing billions into Tesla. Publicly traded companies are... public. It is not a crystal ball.
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Old May 6, 2018 | 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
not trying to make this political but musk is a bit like the donald trump of car execs... he's brash, does anything for press, is active on twitter, and a little erratic. but also brilliant, rich, and very successful.
he also fights back if you trash him, as he recently got into some drama with warren buffet over this "moat" ideology thing and now he wanted to start his own candy company to compete with buffets. well...i guess that's what he is going to do after he solve teslas model 3 production problem.
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Old May 7, 2018 | 11:28 AM
  #100  
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Couldn't believe it when I read this. Has Musk lost it? If this isn't a classic set-up for contractors to bribe Tesla employees, show me what is.



Tesla Will Lock Out Contractors on Monday Unless Employees Vouch For Them


Elon Musk is apparently planning to purge Tesla factories of contractors in the strangest way possible. The company CEO is planning to cut off access to the company to any contractor who doesn’t have a Tesla employee to vouch for the quality of their work.

In a recent email sent to Tesla employees and obtained by Electrek, Musk warned that outside workers will be denied entry into the factory come Monday morning. The only way to keep those extra laborers around is if a Tesla employee is willing to place their own livelihood on the line in order to attest to the contractor’s skills.

Here’s the full email from Musk, via Electrek:[QUOTE]Please note my comment below about contractor companies and consultants. I extended the performance evaluation deadline to provide more opportunity to demonstrate excellence, but now time is up.

Please send a note to HR before Monday justifying the excellence, necessity and trustworthiness by individual (not just the contractor company as a whole) of every non-Tesla person who has badge access to our buildings or network access to our systems.

By default, anyone who does not have a Tesla employee putting their reputation on the line for them will be denied access to our facilities and networks on Monday morning. This applies worldwide.

Time to scrub off the barnacles.

Thanks, Elon

Musk’s habit of referring to contract workers as “barnacles” also came up in the company’s first-quarter earnings call. In addition to throwing a mini-temper tantrum over questions from analysts, Musk also told investors:

The number of third-party contracting companies that we’re using has really gotten out of control, so we’re going to scrub the barnacles on that front. It’s pretty crazy. We’ve got barnacles on barnacles. So there’s going to be a lot of barnacle removal.

(Barnacles, by the way, can play a pretty important role in maintaining a healthy ecosystem, but let’s not that get in the way of the analogy.)

It’s not clear how many people will be affected by Musk’s decision to remove contractors who don’t get a recommendation from a Tesla employee. The company employs nearly 40,000 people worldwide and has hundreds of contractors working in its factories at any given time. It’s expected the expulsion will take place globally across all of the company’s facilities.

Musk has been harping on contractors for weeks now. In another email published by Electrek, Musk bemoaned the extensive network of contractors and sub-contractors plugged into Tesla’s workforce. “Many contracts are essentially open time & materials, not fixed price and duration, which creates an incentive to turn molehills into mountains, as they never want to end the money train,” he wrote.

Losing a job sucks no matter what. If there is a silver lining for the contractors who will be out of work come Monday, it’s that they will no longer have to work for Tesla, which seems like a kinda terrible place to work.

A recent lawsuit claimed contractors working for the company were pressured by a temp agency to accept debit cards as payment instead of a check. Workers at Tesla plant in New York went months without pay, and the company is facing a new lawsuit alleging nonpayment from a contractor in California. Tesla also has cultivated a notoriously garbage culture rife with allegations of or harassment and discrimination, so those who survive the purge will still be stuck with that.

Last edited by mmarshall; May 7, 2018 at 11:32 AM.
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Old May 7, 2018 | 11:33 AM
  #101  
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So...about that Model 3 production target.....No better way to make sure that is achieved.
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Old May 7, 2018 | 11:36 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by situman
So...about that Model 3 production target.....No better way to make sure that is achieved.
....by having contractors bribe Tesla employees into giving them glowing reports?
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Old May 7, 2018 | 11:38 AM
  #103  
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I've never had to do it, but I have heard of people having to reapply for their own jobs? i.e. a formal application and interview process. I wouldn't be willing to do it, and if I were a contractor, and I really were talented, I'd be gone on my own choosing. I would expect the action would be a talent drain, but I'm not a billionaire, Musk is.

I mean realistically, what impression do people have of highly successful companies anyway. That's it's like kids' soccer, don't keep any score, everybody is a winner, and certificates for participation all around? Funny Kia had a commercial that touched upon this. The real world isn't about not hurting feelings, imho...
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Old May 7, 2018 | 11:47 AM
  #104  
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It seems to me that the situation is becoming worse, and Mr. Musk is finding it overwhelming and looking for someone to blame.

Temporary (contract) workers are the easiest to blame, since they are expendable. Blame your permanent employees and they may sabotage the work or the facilities but temporary employees just leave and do not come back.

This is proof to me that there is a lack of true, competent leadership at the top. If there were experienced auto industry executives on the top floor overseeing things -- instead of a micro-manager who believes he can do everything -- there would be far fewer of these problems.
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Old May 7, 2018 | 11:49 AM
  #105  
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< Exactly - why is he micro-managing the process? This is essentially just rebids for contracts. Don't they have the normal yearly performance review for employees? That should apply to contractors too. He needs to crawl back into his creative index and let the pros he hired to handle the business side.
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