mmarshall

Good.....the lower, the better. Makes them even more of a good deal.

arentz07

That's encouraging - maybe picking up a used G80 will be easier than I thought.

I think it's a visibility problem. Everyone who I have spoken with about Genesis still thinks it's just a fancy Hyundai and has no idea the new brand exists.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed, it's harder than ever to launch a brand in a world filled with social media, fake news, everyone's-a-blogger-celeb farce...

Sulu

Agreed. That will give us a true indication of how successful Genesis truly is, regardless of what the armchair critics may say. If actual sales (results) are (much) better than expectations, Genesis is a success; if, however actual sales are much worse than expectations, Genesis is not doing well.

The lower the transaction price, the better for the shopper, especially for someone who is window shopping and not seriously looking to buy a Genesis. But steep discounts are an indication that actual sales are (much) worse than expectations, signalling that either Genesis management forecast incorrectly or that no one wants to buy the vehicle (G90) or the brand (i.e. the car or the brand is a failure).

mmarshall

Agreed. Lack of demand could (?) also mean high depreciation down the road as well. But, in general, the longer you keep a car (especially after about the three-year-mark), the less of a factor depreciation becomes, due to the flattening of the curve. And the 10-year drivetrain warranty on Korean-brand products, is, of course, an incentive to keep it for a long time.

UberNoob

this boils down to a case of marketing conumdrum
do you build a better product (much better than existing line-up) in hopes of raising the brand value
or do you build brand equity first and step up your products (the whole line-up) gradually?

or do you stick to what you do best, the budget segment and be an accessible brand?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so success/failure is purely subjective?

i look at it this way... hyundai made the g80/g90/k900 for their home market first and sales 'overseas' are a bonus. sure they'd love those models to rocket up in sales (compared to similar competitors) but for all the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum that's highly unlikely no matter how great the product, dealers or marketing campaign in today's world. lexus launched with a bang at a time when the german products were possibly at an all time low (smart play by toyota!!). german cars back then had outrageous prices for poor quality, poor tech in many cases, and were very inefficient (they truly were built like tanks, lol). today that's not the case.

oldcajun

I have spent some time on the Genesis forums and it seems that the $50K prices are for 2017 models, most with miles on them. The best deals seem to be leases thru Genesis Financial which have an $8000 incentive that is not available for purchases. Some of these leased cars are going for around $60K including the incentive.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall

No. Scion did not fail because of no-haggle pricing. The no-haggle, list-price policy was actually a boon, and many buyers liked it....that was also the case at Saturn. Both companies folded because of gross mismanagement by corporate HQ. In the case of Scion, they stuck too much to entry-level vehicles.....essentially C and B-class (compact and sub-compact) sedans, coupes, and hatchbacks in a market that (mostly) wanted something larger.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

LexsCTJill - exactly which makes the lexus success all the more remarkable, but timing is (almost) everything, plus luck, but it was not luck that the original ls400 blew everyone's mind when it was launched with an equally awesome marketing campaign. i don't think the auto world has seen anything like that since.

mmarshall

Probably the closest, at least in the amount of media-hype, was the Tesla Model S.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but the success of the Lexus LS400 wasn't about "media hype" it was about a near perfect product matching a near perfect opportunity with a near perfect marketing campaign. ball bearings and champagne glasses come to mind.

tesla's marketing is minimal, it's far from a near perfect product and the opportunity has been weak at best... tesla could only dream of selling what the ls400 sold... and tesla is more 'cult of personality' (musk) which does give it media hype for sure.

about product, the ls400 was a large step up from what had gone before, but the tesla though is revolutionary. but revolutionaries mostly end up failing or dead, superceded by what comes next. i could see that happening to tesla, with what's going on at gm, jaguar, bmw, and many others. but tesla may well end up being a huge battery supplier. but if they can't get the tesla 3 production volume a LOT higher, they're in a load of trouble on the car side.

back the k900, it was nowhere near a perfect product, with little opportunity and basically no marketing as far as i could tell... = #fail it's not a terrible car, it's just nothing special. they'll need to do a lot better for the next gen.

UDel

I don't go on Genesis forums, I have not heard of any discounts where you can get them for 50K or around 20K off of MSRP though there are a few here that have gotten some really good lease deals on them. Are you sure they are not just clearing out some 2017's with some really good offers? It is not like there are no Lexus models getting steep discounts, there are some that have said they got or saw GS-F's and RC-F's for 15K+ off MSRP, GS had some hefty discounts too.

UDel

They normally lump the Genesis coupe with Genesis sedan in sales when it was a Hyundai and it was less expensive sold under a Hyundai, many competitors are down, some very down from 2010 or even 2015 so it is not just the G80, the G80 still consistently places 3rd place in sales in its segment to this day which is impressive.