If you are considering an ATS, what about one size bigger like the CTS V. If that's too pricey the V-Sport is priced pretty cheaply and about as fast as your RCF with extra room.

 

Who is closer to the Germans? The V series or F by Lexus. Looking at the ATS-V numbers, they are impressive. Top speed of the ATS-V is 189MPH, its 171 for the RCF.

 

Although not a German platform per se, the GM Alpha platform, which underpins the ATS, was developed with at least some input from German sources, and, like other high-performance Cadillacs, developed and tested on the Nurburgring.

 

I do not care what platform it is.

All I would like to know is what sell betters and what has better performance stats? CTSV/ATSV vs the RCF/GSF..... That is it.

Seems like everyone on here wants to bash Cadillac all the time. Then when I bring up the discussion of stats, those members on here all of a sudden go dark. Then we could even argue the merits of having a manual transmission in the Caddy.

Interesting discussion below.

http://www.autoguide.com/car-compari...015-lexus-rc-f

 

Well, often, you do care, and make an issue of it. Please excuse me, then, if that is not the case this time.

Sales-numbers probably mean little in this class, because high-priced, ultra-high-performance couples like this are going to have very few takers to start with. Besides, unless one is on a drag strip, there probably isn't much difference in actual daily driving-feel behind the ATS's 3.8 second 0-60 times and the RC's 4.4...both of them are going to give you a pretty healthy shove back in your seat.


The merits and demerits of traditional 3-pedal manuals vs. other types of transmissions have been discussed (and debated) numerous times in Car Chat.....not only in Caddies, but many other vehicles as well. What would be gained by another lengthly discussion of them here, particularly on the ATS?

 

Yeah, the ATS-V actually does much better with the lightning fast 8 speed auto vs the manual. At this point in drive train engineering there is no need to be using a 3 pedal setup.

On another note, the ATS-V doesn't get the respect it deserves. That's for sure. It posts incredible numbers and it is the real deal. They took it to Germany and tuned it on the "Ring". I still don't like the back end styling but the coupe is otherwise quite handsome.

 

Would you say similar things for the CTS-V? I watched Jay Leno's garage and he praised it quite a bit.

 

No, I fully expect to see Michael Keaton at the wheel of one of those in his Batman outfit. It's proportions don't work for me.

Jay Leno is actually a really nice guy and he has good taste in cars but I wouldn't base my taste in cars on what he likes. He's got a lot of money and he's going to enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that. He's acquired a lot of car knowledge.

The thing with Cadillac is that it has issues with unreliability and it also has the "bling", "rap" and old guys car persona to overcome. The ATS is interesting because they managed to get the curb weight down and increased HP. Balanced chassis and nice steering feel according to most reviews. BMW can't say that and neither can Audi.

 

Vertical taillights, in particular, are more or less a permanent (or semi-permanent) feature of Cadillac styling, which traces back to the original late-1940s tail-fins. The fins reached their zenith in the super-ostentatious 1959 model, then slowly faded out....but the vertical taillights, like the Buick portholes, hung on for many decades. Buick is finally starting to phase out the portholes on its latest models (I happened to have liked them myself)....we'll see if Caddy soon follows suit.

Caddy did, BTW, give up the vertical taillights on three models...the 80s-vintage Cimarron, the early-1980s-vintage, truncated-rear Seville, and the late-90s Catera (which was a redone Opel). All three were complete flops....and the company learned from them.

 

IMHO, the issue then gets Cadillac back to appealing to an aging old demographic which wants cushy-cush ride and Florida banana belt shirts with Las Vegas weekends.

The Millenials and the 30-40 something don't really know any of that. If Cadillac had just gotten away from the absurd practice of using marketing drones from dictating something about brand identity - you would have seen the big Caddy styled in the exact theme you describe, and then the mid-level CTS and the sporty ATS with totally different styling cues.

I think that GM needs to realize that it's not making iPhones and iPads here. Heck, Buick is selling better and they're using Euro styling cues. It tells you something.

 

Yes, there are still many old-timers left who like the traditional Cadillac ride (and Cadillac, IMO, has foolishly neglected them)...contrary to popular belief, they're NOT all dying off. But that has little to do with the ATS-V as described here in the article. Those who would look at or purchase something like the ATS-V are obviously not looking for a cushy DeVille/DTS ride. How they would react to the vertical taillights is an interesting question.....you don't seem to like them, but others might.

Buick and Cadillac both share one big selling-feature......in general, the SUVs are doing a number on the sedans.

 

I agree that there's a market for certain segments in the buyer demographic. But essentially at this point the BMW 3/4, Mercedes C, and Audi A class are eating Cadillac for breakfast, lunch and dinner. It's not going well.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/07/...lts-june-2017/

 

that's what buick's for.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/22/news...and/index.html

 

<br /><br /><br /><br />Let me get this straight. Buick sells 1.4 million vehicles per year worldwide? Is that true? So is Buick a bigger success than Lexus?